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mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958336 << i guess. these retrospective statements of "what was ALWAYS most important" rather evoke dreamstates. if the person in question was in fact literate, he'd have linked the historical statement, rather than provide an ad-hoc reintrepretation of what he currently thinks was "always" the most important.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 15:37:57 jfw: "Not treating users like they're "illiterate" if they want to be able to write their own name has always been the most important
mircea_popescu: illiterate users of spellkits for their own name seem to me less desirable than literate people, so whathevers. i guess the practical difference between musl and say python is actually nil, and if you want to use it you'll have to fork and maintain it.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958342 << i dunno, i was trying to unravel a disorderly ball of poorly made references by the illiterate farmhands of the object-oriented cvasi-programming cult.
mircea_popescu: the salient points are 1. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-18#1958204 somehow linked to 2. something off trinque's blog which reads "Therefore we may not sin too much calling complexity the measure of how weaved-with an item is, either in itself or with its surroundings.", if that indeed's what was meant by "second line".
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 15:41:11 jfw: mircea_popescu: who/what was this to btw?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 19:33:08 tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r08ACagY/image.png
mircea_popescu: i dunno what some illiterate moron deems problematic about that sentence, maybe it's the vocabulary, such as the word "sin". god knows they have vocabulary problems all the damned time.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958344 << quite exactly, the perfect wankdevice.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 15:44:57 diana_coman: jfw: eh, that's the usual way socialism always goes - it's "the people's interests" except of course they get defined discarding any given individual's input if it does not match "what the interests should be" etc.
jfw: mircea_popescu: ah no, the line he and then I attempted to link was "The English sources at my disposal underwhelm, so let's instead take a stab at the Latin beneath."
mircea_popescu: ahahaha, and THAT is offensive to the illiterate self-spellers ?!
mircea_popescu: good god, with minds like these what need of scholarship.
jfw: I took it as, "wait wut, do these people hate English or everything-but-English??"
mircea_popescu: there's this romanian idiomatic, it goes "te uiti ca vitelu' la poarta noua".
mircea_popescu: literally it means, "you gaze upon it like the veal at the new gate". it translates into literature an ancient experience of an ancient cattle herding people :
mircea_popescu: you see, in traditional culture everything has a time and a place. that's it's principal quality, the thing that makes it a culture in the first place : it's complete.
mircea_popescu: now, the time for the cows to leave the house is in the early morning, they go grazing. whereas the time to fix your outer gate is kinda noon-ish, after more high priorty items were seen to.
mircea_popescu: this necessarily means that every veal returning home will return to a new gate every time the man has fixed his.
mircea_popescu: and the veal does not know what to do. it does sorta look like his house, but then what is THIS thing ?!
mircea_popescu: so it sits an gazes at the thing, and could sit there all evening. you have to know you have to send one of the children to drag the animal back in. it's one of the fringes of proper manhood, things far out in the footnotes of the book of being an 1700s romanian peasant, stuff only a few know, BUT ALL EVENTUALLY DISCOVER.
mircea_popescu: for my sins i find myself surrounded by the problems of my ancestors, which i guess is making them happy. fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: "literate" veals, very capable of scribbling their own name in an alphabet of their choice (somehow nobody notices "using an alphabet of your own choice" is THE OPPOSITE OF SPELLING, and the exact definition of illiteracy -- all the fucking farmhands who can't read or write COULD scribble something down, anyone can screech random squgg;lies, with a shovel in a pile of dirt, with their own piss on driven snow, fingerpain
mircea_popescu: tin' literacy wtf)
mircea_popescu: sitting at the gate tryina figure it out. "do these people hate english ? or everything other than english ? hmmm!!! my premise could not possibly be faulty, i'm a literate veal that can spell his own name, just look at this last cowpie, how well it speals -- VEAL!"
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2020/edwgward-allbeen-spellinck/#comment-147569 << meanwhile in shockingly appropriate literacies.
jfw: They'll need to get that cowpie into unicode 12.2.
mircea_popescu: THAT one, mind youi.
mircea_popescu: no substitutes are acceptable, it has to be the exact one.
mircea_popescu: neways. the cows have enough sense to find their own house, but only if the gate hasn't been changed recently -- the village cattle minder just takes them to the end of the village as the air turns dusky, and they on their own time sorta lumber towards the respective storage units
mircea_popescu: and these scions of africa 2.0, they have enough sense to object-oriented.
mircea_popescu: which, sadly but painfully, has been my experience of europe. i took a coupla sluts born in the colonies to take in the glories of the motherland, and the motherland meanwhile's turned 100% chad.
mircea_popescu: i very vividly remember the STRIVE, the fucking indomitable drive of black people in the 70s an' 80s to catch up, to become, to civilize, to build up their countries. it started in the early years of the century, with luminaries like the emperor of ethiopia ; it bulked out and by the 70s it was a deluge.
mircea_popescu: romania helped, with tech transfer, with political support, including AGAINST the moronic us & friends (a tradition, by the way). so did the russians, and the chinese, tho veiled by their alt-flavoured imperial pretensions.
mircea_popescu: but now, revisiting the matter half a century later -- the frankfurt-oslo axis barely qualifies for historical addis abeba.
mircea_popescu: the poor fucks never got a chance to catch up, because the other retards, the lazy, inept, EQUALITARIAN retards of "Il est interdit d'interdire !" & co managed to catch down instead.
mircea_popescu: fucking tragedy of this sad millenoum.
jfw: Rough.
mircea_popescu: certainly builds up one's capacity to understand the saddest face.
jfw: And Europe's still got the infrastructure and scenic castles and classical languages and all that to think it's still a thing
mircea_popescu: well, while that lasts. notre dame went to join its maker.
mircea_popescu: it's quite obvious, incidentally, perusing the collection of liberated rats, that the walls are rather in their way. if there weren't all these things they practically speaking stole from other people (through the complicity of father time, not through some sort of effort on their part) being in the way, if it weren't the case they lack both the drive and the equipment to tear them down, it's rather self-obvious watchin
mircea_popescu: g them go about their day that indeed they'd have reconstructed a world much more in their own image. out of garbage, multicolorous, strangely odorous, europe's little more than one giant brazilian favela -- except, again, for the indignity of ruins preventing their aspirations.
mircea_popescu: and the same thing's obvious if one reads any codebase important enough to have been around since before september. like say coreutils, or like say anything else.
mircea_popescu: oddly i can't find havng discussed that whole pile of unicode breakage in the logs -- though i'm pretty sure i said something on multiple occasions.
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's repair ...
mircea_popescu: "At that point sort appears broken because case is folded and punctuation is ignored because ‘en_US.UTF-8’ specifies this behavior. Once specifically requested by LANG and other LC_* variables, sort and other locale knowledgeable programs must respect that setting and sort according to the operating system locale tables. That is why this is not a bug in sort, sort is doing the right thing, even if the behavior is ge
mircea_popescu: nerally undesirable. Most of the language specific locales have tables that specify the sort behavior to ignore punctuation and to fold case. This is counter intuitive to most long time computer users!"
mircea_popescu: what the fuck "long time computer users" ? we're using periphrases for humanity now ? the fucking cows don't belong in computing already.
jfw: mircea_popescu: you mentioned the broken sorting here at least
mircea_popescu: oh oh. the comment sections
mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: in the end it turns out, forking musl is unavoidable on very deep, far reaching, fundamental grounds.
mircea_popescu: So IMHO it's worth stating in the documentation that some command is expected to have certain flags available, which in the end would lead us to a complete enumeration of system utilities and the functionality they provide, which IMHO would be worth at least as much as the current POSIX spec. << this btw is eminently a service and likely to produce the way forward.
jfw: np. Gotta run for now - this bitcoin signing code isn't going to cut itself.
mircea_popescu: enjoy
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