mircea_popescu: this is unacceptable.

mircea_popescu: jurov wordplay hehe

mircea_popescu: whoa fdp got like 10%

mircea_popescu: srsly.

mircea_popescu: cdu getting butchered was kinda in the books

mircea_popescu: and the pirates did jack shit huh

mircea_popescu: 0 seats tho, i don't imagine they expected that.

mircea_popescu: indeed.

mircea_popescu: ya was here earlier

mircea_popescu: these look like sales

mircea_popescu: ya

mircea_popescu: o i c

mircea_popescu: oh i see

mircea_popescu: http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/135872157621.jpg

mircea_popescu: Anduck i called fake first!

mircea_popescu: Jan 20 22:21:50 <mircea_popescu> looks fake to me

mircea_popescu: Jan 20 22:21:50 <thestringpuller> push them to smickles

mircea_popescu: Jan 20 22:22:01 <mircea_popescu> i can see because of some pixels

mircea_popescu: ;;later bugpowder what did you want to ask about margin ? i missed it at the time, luckily someone mentioned avalon fake pic and i had to dig through logs.

mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bugpowder what did you want to ask about margin ? i missed it at the time, luckily someone mentioned avalon fake pic and i had to dig through logs.

mircea_popescu: omfg.

mircea_popescu: jurov lol it went from .25 to 4 today

mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/147/mtgox-out-of-business-by-end-of-year/

mircea_popescu: you'd think people give it better chances of survival than 2 out of 3 ?

mircea_popescu: not a bad idea.

mircea_popescu: lmao

mircea_popescu: both search and ticker.

mircea_popescu: tho it could be in a #bitbet chan

mircea_popescu: thestringpuller what's your hurry, not like it hits 100 today.

mircea_popescu: you're prolly the only one

mircea_popescu: ;;later tell assbot ass, bot!

mircea_popescu: we need an asspot to go with the assbot

mircea_popescu: smickles is like, on dial-up. and some friendly 70yo neighbour keeps picking up the receiver.

mircea_popescu: <jurov> is he old enough for toilet trading? << fify

mircea_popescu: http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/may20.jpg

mircea_popescu: so whats new

mircea_popescu: lmao

mircea_popescu: shipping what ?

mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

mircea_popescu: whoa nelly

mircea_popescu: o, they really shipped ? linx ?

mircea_popescu: yaya , but did either confirm ?

mircea_popescu: well that'sd where it was friday :p

mircea_popescu: btw, you people about ready to enter your ruling ?

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100909.msg1467772#msg1467772

mircea_popescu: his meds are not work :(

mircea_popescu: R Company Sales/mth $ Profit/yr BTC Profit/yr Industry link

mircea_popescu: 1 MtGox $ 14M $ 3.2M 200k Exchange -

mircea_popescu: dude srsly ?! mtgox clears 200k btc a year ?

mircea_popescu: Signature: HBNlxhUDnEKbMl1p082ergE+ekRZINRmr12/DpZQy0sODhxGTE40HukSnPL+mQDDy8yg+bjQblA+NsJeI3XyoEs=

mircea_popescu: is what i see

mircea_popescu: omgwhat conspiraci si this ?!

mircea_popescu: i call shenanigans

mircea_popescu: Bugpowder iirc they made a loss in 2010

mircea_popescu: and their 2011 report showed a modest recovery

mircea_popescu: but still overal in the hole.

mircea_popescu: Bugpowder i just go by the reports they publish

mircea_popescu: you saw those ?

mircea_popescu: lemme dig up

mircea_popescu: Bugpowder https://mtgox.com/img/pdf/20120201/Transparency_Jan.pdf 2011 one

mircea_popescu: jcpham each party pays 10 btc, for a total of 20.

mircea_popescu: the prevailing party gets up to 10 btc back (depending what % of their claim is granted)

mircea_popescu: the losing party gets nothing. the judges get 3 btc each.

mircea_popescu: nah, the judges get the salary no matter what.

mircea_popescu: Bugpowder nothing afaik.

mircea_popescu: Bugpowder they have something like 5 employees

mircea_popescu: in japan this costs a little bit of money

mircea_popescu: they have a 3 room office

mircea_popescu: in a not so great part of town, but anyway

mircea_popescu: japan is expensive throughout

mircea_popescu: they also took angel funding in 2010ish

mircea_popescu: you know how cosanguine these things get

mircea_popescu: angel gets employed etc

mircea_popescu: they were never released, no.

mircea_popescu: are you up to speed with their op history atall ?

mircea_popescu: well anyway, originalyl site started by some guy in the us

mircea_popescu: who then got cold feet and wanted out

mircea_popescu: gave the site away practically to the current team

mircea_popescu: then hacked into it and stole some moneyz lol

mircea_popescu: (that was the "auditor" )

mircea_popescu: kinda primitive relationships, at least historically.

mircea_popescu: jurov_ relationships based on tribal structures rather than flow of capital, law and ownership

mircea_popescu: eh, i doubt that.

mircea_popescu: for most of history people could be dishonorable thieves and mostly were not.

mircea_popescu: i think this is a convenient statal lie, to justify the historically incredible levels of taxation.

mircea_popescu: for the same reason takling away the prop of a tree leads to tree colapsing

mircea_popescu: this doesn't prove trees can't grow on their own trunks

mircea_popescu: it just proves propping them is a bad idea.

mircea_popescu: something completely vital was removed for the red decades

mircea_popescu: replaced with a stupid barely functional ersatz

mircea_popescu: once the ersatz collapsed the impression was that there's something missing.

mircea_popescu: ever been in a mining colony ?

mircea_popescu: well cause it'd be a ready example.

mircea_popescu: any small village works, too.

mircea_popescu: how about the old west ?

mircea_popescu: yea

mircea_popescu: no competition for food/land ?!

mircea_popescu: my very dear boy!

mircea_popescu: the us was built on competition for food and land.

mircea_popescu: what do you think made barbed wire such a commercial success

mircea_popescu: jcpham the dispute of cattle vs farm was settled by barbed wire

mircea_popescu: more efficient than the other party's weaponry.

mircea_popescu: sure.

mircea_popescu: listen, killing someione is not the trivial matter it appears to be in video games.

mircea_popescu: even if given free reign to kill anyone at any time most people couldn't be arsed.

mircea_popescu: or learn to suck cock, and do it well.

mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with giving good head.

mircea_popescu: jcpham i doubt mpoe-pr would have much trouble.

mircea_popescu: dub indeed :D

mircea_popescu: after all, they're smart enough to have figured it out first!

mircea_popescu: fuck you dub its all mine

mircea_popescu: no you can't

mircea_popescu: because i made it

mircea_popescu: i will personally impregnate a billionty womenz to win this bet.

mircea_popescu: me and micon

mircea_popescu: isthat nonzero or above zero ?

mircea_popescu: omfg what bs ruling is this.

mircea_popescu: jcpham pigeons i hope you realise the net result of this will simply be me putting it in the faq that i will keep all misrouted funds and fu.

mircea_popescu: it's particularly dumb, in that it allows idiots to extract money from me now.

mircea_popescu: send 100 btc, sue, get 110 back lalala

mircea_popescu: so no, this is the last case on this topic.

mircea_popescu: myeah.

mircea_popescu: pretty mcuh lol. "too soon"

mircea_popescu: forego payment, what bs is that.

mircea_popescu: you don't forego payment. fucking up has costs.

mircea_popescu: you just allocated the cost of fucking up to me, and i'm not the one who fucked up.

mircea_popescu: this is fucked up.

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: also the first.

mircea_popescu: funny how that works 0.0

mircea_popescu: i guess it at least proves they be independent ninnies.

mircea_popescu: dawg, independence is this concept whereby people think autonomously

mircea_popescu: it wouldn't be drama if it weren't too late.

mircea_popescu: right. cause the bank won't do the insane sort of shit i do

mircea_popescu: cause it knows better

mircea_popescu: because why ?

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: ima hold rota entrance exams, consisting of reciting cicero and laurian in latin

mircea_popescu: ya, but i'll send all complainants to haunt you

mircea_popescu: no cause they are from occupy movement.

mircea_popescu: you know, the people who hate financial instutions

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: <mod6> otherwise this just creates way more problems then it solves << i am grasped by sudden terror at the realisation of that, yes.

mircea_popescu: somehow i just never foresaw this one.

mircea_popescu: im not doing anything today.

mircea_popescu: why lol

mircea_popescu: pigeons yeah well, you sorta misunderstand what this is all for.

mircea_popescu: jcpham cause you get to feel bad about it

mircea_popescu: pigeons i should have credited the dude w/o the hassle ?

mircea_popescu: he's absolutely the last guy who sends ANY ammt to mpex and gets crtedited.

mircea_popescu: that's a certainty.

mircea_popescu: how;s the relation relevant ?

mircea_popescu: pigeons the reason nobody was using it was (i understand now) the justified fear that people are not equipped to judge.

mircea_popescu: sadly this was proven true, luckily it was proven true on a modest case of little import.

mircea_popescu: i was considering doing that, yes.

mircea_popescu: but i'm not happy with how it works, so i won't do it in the future.

mircea_popescu: dub about what ?

mircea_popescu: dub historically if you sent the wrong amt you're fucked.

mircea_popescu: i was considering changing this policy, via the rota.

mircea_popescu: it failed to work, so i'm going back to what historically worked very well.

mircea_popescu: i was considering relaxing it.

mircea_popescu: surely.

mircea_popescu: pigeons wait, what's the problem with that exactly ?

mircea_popescu: no, actually, i wouldn't have paid the guy.

mircea_popescu: *shrug*

mircea_popescu: since he sued.

mircea_popescu: next time someone tries that i'll just ignore it and that's the end of that story.

mircea_popescu: basically yay rota, it managed to lock itself out of pretty much the only subject matter anyone thought it worthy of considering

mircea_popescu: not entirely sure if that means it'll just die in a corner somewhere, but seems quite likely.

mircea_popescu: pigeons if it made a reasonable decision it might have i nthe future had more important stuff brought before it.

mircea_popescu: if it made an unreasonable decision it likely won't.

mircea_popescu: hard enough to push the concept as it is, even if we were to believe judges are marginally qualified and someqwhat sane

mircea_popescu: if we don't believe either of those it's a dead sell, no matter how hard i push it

mircea_popescu: and i don't push dead sells.

mircea_popescu: dude. kids are born toothless

mircea_popescu: and they only chew what their parents bring to them

mircea_popescu: what did you expect, to start by considering a five million btc case ?

mircea_popescu: no. the reason is so that you people can show you can judge.

mircea_popescu: it's what's known as an opportunity.

mircea_popescu: jcpham that's pretty much it. you allocated the cost of fucking up to the party that didn't fuck up.

mircea_popescu: ahahahaah

mircea_popescu: baby, socialism is for fiat.

mircea_popescu: this is btc.

mircea_popescu: dub it's unavoidable it will start small.

mircea_popescu: people won't risk their money on something untried.

mircea_popescu: and in retrospect that is a wise approach.

mircea_popescu: whence all this arrogance anwyay ?

mircea_popescu: "something so small

mircea_popescu: " ? what bs is that.

mircea_popescu: do something small well.

mircea_popescu: something small like whatever can be had.

mircea_popescu: you're not part of the scotus, just yet. so, you know, little room to thumb nose.

mircea_popescu: dub yes, it was a simple case.

mircea_popescu: dub because now any of the judges can start spamming my address with 100 btc payments

mircea_popescu: sueing

mircea_popescu: then getting paid for the process.

mircea_popescu: it's a fucking hole.

mircea_popescu: dub the idea was to allocate the win neutrally.

mircea_popescu: dub : they could have allocated fractional.

mircea_popescu: pigeons what happens now if you send 100.0 btc, sue, get back 100 + 10 fee + 3 for judging it ?

mircea_popescu: am i out 3 btc for each 100 you send ?

mircea_popescu: heh.

mircea_popescu: i thought i answered, but again :

mircea_popescu: two parties to any trial. each contributes 10 btc, for a total of 20.

mircea_popescu: 3 judges to any trial, each gets 3 btc, for a total of 9.

mircea_popescu: the winner gets a fraction of 10 btc = to the % he's allocated.

mircea_popescu: very odd.

mircea_popescu: you know, money isn't soemthing to be redistributed to the needy. or do you ?

mircea_popescu: you still haven't answered the above question.

mircea_popescu: pigeons what happens now if you send 100.0 btc, sue, get back 100 + 10 fee + 3 for judging it ? <<< this.

mircea_popescu: do you plan to answer or should i just drop it ?

mircea_popescu: rigjht.

mircea_popescu: well tell you what, that's no way to judge.

mircea_popescu: 100 times a day.

mircea_popescu: dub all shit to be settled is stupid

mircea_popescu: if it weren't stupid it wouldn't end in a court.

mircea_popescu: pigeons i didn't "cause" him to send rounded numbers dood.

mircea_popescu: yeah, well, i guess this shows why the random person, even if well meaning, can not be a judge.

mircea_popescu: lol mkay.

mircea_popescu: dub kakobrekla pigeons IT CREATES ANONIMITY

mircea_popescu: are you fucking nuts ? ffs.

mircea_popescu: lol why'd anyone bet on that ?

mircea_popescu: the fact that all btc goes to the same address means nobody's deposits or withdrawals can be traced.

mircea_popescu: aaanyways.

mircea_popescu: i think this has been discussed to it's demise

mircea_popescu: i wonder what's gonna be the next one

mircea_popescu: i didn't expect to win dood.

mircea_popescu: i expected the guy to win his 130 btc back.

mircea_popescu: mod6 blue or red ?

mircea_popescu: pigeons so that you may prove yourselves as actually takeable seriously as judges

mircea_popescu: in spite of no qualifications, prior experience etc.

mircea_popescu: i guess lol

mircea_popescu: pigeons you forget it's a voluntary system.

mircea_popescu: erring on either side is equally bad.

mircea_popescu: it has to be quite arrowstraight.

mircea_popescu: ...

mircea_popescu: dude. you created a pump.

mircea_popescu: peopel can now claim infinite btc from me.

mircea_popescu: all it takes is for them to send rounded btc.

mircea_popescu: dub yup

mircea_popescu: i have no choice, obviously.

mircea_popescu: jurov cause that's unfair to the poor.

mircea_popescu: jurov hey, at least it's fair.

mircea_popescu: dub well quite possibly.

mircea_popescu: pigeons shit he missent.

mircea_popescu: dude i dunno, seriously, mail your house keys to some random address

mircea_popescu: then expect they pai

mircea_popescu: for the tiome you couldn't go inside cause you didn't have your keys or w/e

mircea_popescu: and the trouble of finding them again

mircea_popescu: 130.0 is random.

mircea_popescu: what i most of all wonder is,

mircea_popescu: why hasn't this lively debate take place in teh comment section ?!

mircea_popescu: comments are always free ?!

mircea_popescu: dude... comments are always and in all circumstancess visible.

mircea_popescu: i dun particularly want to preserve it

mircea_popescu: that's why it's so fascinating lol

mircea_popescu: dub quite.

mircea_popescu: i doubt it has any relevance to anyone other than the ppl involved tho

mircea_popescu: i think for everyone else its "o, that thing that couldn't have worked didn't ? o wow."

mircea_popescu: jurov no, you may ask for the keys back, and even get them

mircea_popescu: but you can't get more ffs.

mircea_popescu: dub justice is apparently too prudish for me.

mircea_popescu: this is literally "he should get the keys, the stamps for having asked and if we could we'd have given him all paid tow weeks vacation to boot"

mircea_popescu: dub it reads like mp taxing himself to create the system, and paying people to be idiots and subvert deposit process.

mircea_popescu: sorta like i'm the government, i guess.

mircea_popescu: except in btc there's no such thing.

mircea_popescu: basically this is a ruling saying "it is right and proper for people to disregard instructions and send anything they want to mpex"

mircea_popescu: which is pretty boneheaded.

mircea_popescu: pigeons "it happens" ?

mircea_popescu: jurov yeah. same thing.

mircea_popescu: pigeons mistakes are paid for BY THOSE WHO MAKLE THEM

mircea_popescu: not by those who have the most money.

mircea_popescu: not by those who are the bigger entity

mircea_popescu: not by those who we identify as "the man" in our misguided quest for social justice.

mircea_popescu: etc.

mircea_popescu: dub cheeky ruling then.

mircea_popescu: if that actually is the case, i should certainly dissolve it.

mircea_popescu: no but wtf bs is this, "We are too good for the case at hand"

mircea_popescu: dub the idea here is to create a new system, not to rehash the old.

mircea_popescu: the entire point is to have voluntary courts, which is to say, courts which can be relied on to be fair. by both parties.

mircea_popescu: well i guess not.

mircea_popescu: jcpham in no interpretation of fairness can you promote a judgement based on one single party's pov.

mircea_popescu: "he paid 130+10 and should get back 140"

mircea_popescu: that's fine.

mircea_popescu: but it's half the story, and not good enough.

mircea_popescu: "nothing other than the fees" is btc.

mircea_popescu: " reasonable" ?!

mircea_popescu: wtf is that lol.

mircea_popescu: jurov no, it's not. the court isn't above the contract

mircea_popescu: again, this isn't fiat world and socialist government imposing it.

mircea_popescu: jcpham it's in the old options page somewhere

mircea_popescu: DEPOSIT|{sum}, where the sum is an integer, written in BTC (note that you can not deposit less than 10 BTC). You will be quoted an exact sum, which you must send to the exchange address (1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx). Don't round anything, the decimals are there to identify you as the beneficiary. You will be credited the full amount.

mircea_popescu: there's that in the current faq

mircea_popescu: jurov yes.

mircea_popescu: well rota is well fucked then.

mircea_popescu: jcpham there's gonna be lol.

mircea_popescu: that's not what a judge does.

mircea_popescu: turns out this banal case was actually incredibly fucking intricate huh.

mircea_popescu: im pretty sure, yeah.

mircea_popescu: but i squarely don't see how anyone would ever consider responding to a case, ever.

mircea_popescu: i mean, why ? run the risk of purely unilateral sidetaking... to what avail ? makes no sense.

mircea_popescu: that's no consolation.

mircea_popescu: if people wanted to gamble they'd go to sdice

mircea_popescu: pigeons except the loser is the party that made no mistake.

mircea_popescu: which is insane.

mircea_popescu: this can not be a mistake. it's not part of the deal.

mircea_popescu: the court can't substitute its own moral judgements for the contract between the parties.

mircea_popescu: he did not fulfill his contract, no.

mircea_popescu: nope.

mircea_popescu: i had no such obligation, quite specifically.

mircea_popescu: because i was nice and you were stupid, tbh.\

mircea_popescu: jcpham yeah.

mircea_popescu: reading the above, i now regred i didn't more clearly stress the supremacy of contract point

mircea_popescu: i can clearly see in retrospect how this "obvious" point was only obvious to me.

mircea_popescu: that's idiocy.

mircea_popescu: jcpham i quoted it above, grep deposits

mircea_popescu: pigeons i guess so.

mircea_popescu: what's unreasonable tho, is to expect me to pay the costs of doing so.

mircea_popescu: pigeons why would i "settle before the rota" ? what bs is that?

mircea_popescu: jcpham let me dig it up

mircea_popescu: Before sending the sum quoted you have to send an email containing at the very least the address you want benefits (through either the later exercise or sale of your contracts) forwarded to and the sum quoted to you. This allows you to be identified. If you fail to do this it may be impossible to ever identify you as the owner of the respective contracts/bitcoins, and so they may be forever lost.

mircea_popescu: pigeons he only made it clear at the rota, actually.

mircea_popescu: once he finally signed the thing

mircea_popescu: why, we drownign out the assbot ?

mircea_popescu: you can go to #trilema.

mircea_popescu: lately i write in english, still ?

mircea_popescu: i changed like 3 months ago

mircea_popescu: 23. What will you do about stolen coins ? How will you help the rightful owner ?

mircea_popescu: By defition the rightful owner of any coins is "he who can send them". If you take issue with that, please stick to fiat. You are not ready for Bitcoin yet.

mircea_popescu: haha ty.

mircea_popescu: defition lol

mircea_popescu: thios was proofed like 8 times. STILL SPELLING ERRORS IN IT OMG

mircea_popescu: DEPOSIT|{sum}, where the sum is an integer, written in BTC (note that you can not deposit less than 10 BTC). You will be quoted an exact sum, which you must send to the exchange address (1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx). Don't round anything, the decimals are there to identify you as the beneficiary. You will be credited the full amount. Incoming Bitcoin that doesn't exactly match a quoted sum will be simply kept, r

mircea_popescu: eported as profits and distributed to MPEx shareholders.

mircea_popescu: there, last sentence in red.

mircea_popescu: and bold face.

mircea_popescu: anyone see room for misinterpretation ?

mircea_popescu: jcpham yes.

mircea_popescu: no i just added it now.

mircea_popescu: i think you're thinking the old mpoe page faq

mircea_popescu: but yes, the idea was always the same.

mircea_popescu: yeah, that.

mircea_popescu: markedathome o right you are

mircea_popescu: it was also in the deposit slip, yes.

mircea_popescu: lemme find that

mircea_popescu: i thought i had been lol.

mircea_popescu: hmm, the deposit slip only says "send this exactly"

mircea_popescu: Jan 05 22:13:53 <mircea_popescu> BUT! FOR SRS! I AM KEEPING ROUNDED SUMS! NOOBS BEWARE!

mircea_popescu: liek ?

mircea_popescu: kik

mircea_popescu: yeah but a large part of the appeal was the philosophical purity of its general open nature

mircea_popescu: once you start trying to prop things with fiat-type arches you'll collapse in fiat mess.

mircea_popescu: thestringpuller when i can afford to be.

mircea_popescu: markedathome hm ?

mircea_popescu: that ?

mircea_popescu: well obviously a one case of anything is about as meaningless as any other one case of something else

mircea_popescu: for that matter, expectign people to be thrown in a pond supposed to be above and beyond the collected wisdom of a good third of all humans that ever lived is also a bit off.

mircea_popescu: that's not something rthey can rule.

mircea_popescu: what's this, fantasia ?

mircea_popescu: ahaha! wait, wait. these verdicts, they fail to include payment addresses.

mircea_popescu: o this is going to be even more dramatique.

mircea_popescu: pigeons jcpham http://trilema.com/2013/case-i-wences-vs-mpex-breach-of-fiduciary-duty/#comment-91499

mircea_popescu: o i see, i skipped over the last yeah

mircea_popescu: fixing.

mircea_popescu: jcpham someone will sooner or later have to lift the messy rock of btc courts.

mircea_popescu: it's going to be messy, and it's going to be a waste of everyone's time.

mircea_popescu: and until it gets done we will just go on sucking.

mircea_popescu: well read up on it neh ?

mircea_popescu: normally i would have loved to say yes, but under the circumstances i don't see myself signing.

mircea_popescu: bullshit "claimant is always right and mp is annoying and rich" judgements i don't need a court for, they're a dime a dozen.

mircea_popescu: hey, you judge the case, i judge your judgement. seems logical neh ?

mircea_popescu: that's the first roll. iirc there's a link to the very short contitution in it

mircea_popescu: you mean ad- ?

mircea_popescu: If any votes are held on the underlieing asset then (if practical) a motion will

mircea_popescu: somebody didn't read teh contract

mircea_popescu: underlieing

mircea_popescu: wtf he spells it that way throughout.