989400+ entries in 0.762s
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from -10
to 3.
kakobrekla: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 made good on
the deeds.
kakobrekla: alright, outweight
the missing 0.074% of
the settelment payment
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 2
to -10.
mircea_popescu: so you know... MPOE is
the financial center of lending by a fat margin.
mircea_popescu: and in any event, i don't
think
THE ENTIRE world of BTC paid 2k interest on deposits last month.
thestringpuller: that amount of capital needed
to
trade drives up
the price of capital expesnes
mircea_popescu: cause
that's what bondholders ask for. its an auction model
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller well people can always put
their btc in more bonds
thestringpuller: but it seems like
the bot is getting reemed on
the capital expenses
mircea_popescu: the
thing is see, if bot
trades 20k contracts it matters A LOT
thestringpuller: can
the bondholders exit
their bond position and get
their entire principle back in a liquidation event?
mircea_popescu: it ALWAYS makes money for shareholders on
the grounds it can never lose any.
mircea_popescu: well 1. you mean mpoe or
the bot and 2. make money for whom ?
mircea_popescu: eventually you passively get all your capital back if
the business sucks.
mircea_popescu: basically, bondholders asked for 9.9%. mpoe made enough
to pay ~5%.
the rest came out of
their capital, as a sort of amortisation of a bizzare kind
smickles: mircea_popescu: i'm just suggesting
to put
the equivilant of
this "1,961.31822035 BTC extra, which were also needed
to pay
the bondholders was actually
taken out of
their bonds" right under
the -1`961.31822035
mircea_popescu: by now mpex is obscure enough
to warrant a fucking qualification
mircea_popescu: i
think ima end up hiring free accounting support for random members of
the public
smickles: that way, unless
there actually was a loss,
the
two would cancel each other out
smickles: mircea_popescu: or, you could but a line item in underneat
the 'loss' line explaining
that X of
the loss was returned principle
mircea_popescu: smickles yeah i guess, but for one i'd end up with having
to round interests.
smickles: mircea_popescu: if you capped
the %
to not return principle, it wouldn't show a loss
mircea_popescu: smickles i really have
to come up with a better accounting scheme for
this, it confuses EVERYBODY
mircea_popescu: but because it used ~40k btc
to insure its
trades and
they ended up auctioned for like 9.9%
mircea_popescu: well,
take nov.
the bot made about 2k btc
trading about 20k each way.
smickles: thestringpuller: basically,
the bondholders
took some of
their own principal
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller
the bot itself
turning a profit and mpoe showing a profit are diff
things
mircea_popescu: othwise futures markets fail
to work, as icbit is on
the verge of proving
thestringpuller: is it just because
that's
the way contracts were always done?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what value do you see physical delivery bringing
to btc?
smickles: I just need
to be reasonably sure
that it's not illegal for you
to do ;)
thestringpuller: I
think as mircea_popescu said, it'd be more like a contract settler
smickles: but, as I am
trying
to become a CPA in
the future,
there are ethical guidelines I need
to adhere
too
thestringpuller: “The
thing
that needs
to be emphasized is
that futures contracts are risk management
tools,” Harangody says. “They are not intended
to be procurement contracts” due
to
the expense and difficulty of meeting
the exchange’s requirements. It’s easier
to exit your responsibilities in
the futures contract and go into
the spot market and buy or sell
those commodities, he adds.
smickles: thestringpuller: essentially, if you set up a foreign company
to do
this, and get a lawer
to look it over and say it's ok,
then I could
smickles: thestringpuller: I don't
think I could
take you on as a client if I suspected your business operated in violation of
the gov't's rules
EskimoBob: figure out your businessmodel and for start,
test it on paper
EskimoBob: ask yourself: what is
the value I am offering
to my clients?
smickles: heh,
thestringpuller i don't see anything about
the accountant needing
to be registered with
the nfa
thestringpuller: smickles: i refuse
to be regulated, if money launderers want
to by lots of coffee let
them
EskimoBob: and
that's why I am
telling
to use distributors
that are set in
those countries. Not sure, what
the value is you actually add
to
the deal but
this is up
to you
to figure out ;)
thestringpuller: even if
the physical side oftheoperation is being run by romanian orphans
EskimoBob: you can live where ever you want but you need
to have a actual company in
those countries :)
smickles: so if you want
to do
this, you either need
to 'know your customer' or not live in 'merica
mircea_popescu: smickles at
the leves involved i would imagine
this would simply count as contract sourcing.
EskimoBob: for start. Go sell a bag of beans you get wfom local whole seller and see what happens.
Then
try
to buy a bag from X and send get it
to your destination Y and see, what happens.
smickles: ah,
thestringpuller foreign business
that do futures business with us customers need
to get an exemption from
the cftc
EskimoBob: you need
to use established shipping routes, wholesellers etc
smickles: thestringpuller: it seems
that my company might have
to register with
the NFA
mircea_popescu: well, futures are not commonly used for procurement irl, but
that may be different for btc i guess
EskimoBob: do you see
that BTC has actually nothing
to do with
that :) You need
to move goods - few metric
tons of beans ?
thestringpuller: by from market X
that is in indonesia during a good season sell beans
to coffee shops in new york
thestringpuller: also with physical delivery of a futures contract I imagine with something like cocoa it'd be a way
to move cocoa from a place of high supply
to low demand
EskimoBob: thestringpuller: I am not sure why is
this even important. BTC is just a way
to
transfer fiat
EskimoBob: you get paid in BTC and
this is your business
smickles: thestringpuller: from what i'm reading, it is generally illegal for 'mericans
to offer futures
to other 'mericans, unless it is done on a US regulated exchange
thestringpuller: it'd be like someone using gold bars
to buy oil or something