979000+ entries in 0.685s
pigeons: no, mircea_popescu coached wences on how
to format his claim
jcpham: now
that i know discussion came before
the rota case
jcpham: it was understanding
that
the parties didn't
try
to resolve it amicably - straight
to rota, no discussion
pigeons: changing
the policy via
the rota?
pigeons: it is also in
the comments on
the general rota post
jcpham: now i know
that i need
to interrogate everyone
jurov: pigeons, did you ask about logs between mircea and wences?
to confirm if mircea forced him
to sue ?
dub: I don;t understand how it went from
trying
to help
the guy
to rota
jcpham: i'm not discussing
this anymore
jcpham: i assumed
that he DID NOT
pigeons: but mircea_popescu forced him
to sue cause mircea_popescu wanted
to promote his rota, and we are his pawns in
that
dub: mircea_popescu: I don't understand how
the rota could change
that, its your policy
mircea_popescu: it failed
to work, so i'm going back
to what historically worked very well.
pigeons: mircea_popescu could have settled with
the guy
then
there was no breach
mircea_popescu: dub historically if you sent
the wrong amt you're fucked.
jcpham: so assume we determine
the funds
to be his, and we also determine
that funds will be returned,
there is no breach
mircea_popescu: but i'm not happy with how it works, so i won't do it in
the future.
jcpham: also
the whole fiduciary duty claim is only relevant given non-refund
pigeons: i know it says dont fuck up your deposits, and im careful cause i know mircea_popescu will keep it, but if he's gonna use
this
to
try
to push his rota, well fact is it is a breach of fiduciary duty it is
totally reasonable
to fix
this when shown proof
jcpham: straight away once
that decision is made,
the fess are what decides everything
jcpham: so we
think or we know it was his funds and we decide
to return
the funds
pigeons: jcpham: explain
the fees
thing
dub: or just
the 100btc loss
jcpham: the 20 btc in fees is icing on
the cake for someone
dub: so does MP get
the neg rating?
jcpham: for all
the ORTA fees are just icing on
the cake
mircea_popescu: sadly
this was proven
true, luckily it was proven
true on a modest case of little import.
jcpham: in fees for
the 130 btc
mircea_popescu: pigeons
the reason nobody was using it was (i understand now)
the justified fear
that people are not equipped
to judge.
jcpham: we're
talking about .00005 at max bitcoin
transaction
pigeons: i wanted
to include
that i
thought
the rota was a good idea and didnt expect mircea_popescu would pt barnum it
jcpham: to me,
the fee is negligible given
the deposit amount
jcpham: that's where
the uncertainty is
jcpham: the problem is
the fees, not
the deposit
pigeons: "MPex does disclaim responsibility for customer errors in depositing, but correcting
this error is a reasonable part of fiduciary duty."
mircea_popescu: he's absolutely
the last guy who sends ANY ammt
to mpex and gets crtedited.
jurov: pigeons, it would be good if you included
the reasoning in your judgement
mircea_popescu: pigeons i should have credited
the dude w/o
the hassle ?
pigeons: if you are going
to make a point
that people can use your rota and it is a good alternative dispute method, forcing
the issue on something like
this when you just should have credited
the dide without all
the hassle is shitty
dub: its obviously
the guys fault but forcing
the rota
to deal with it is not good for either rota or mpex imo
jcpham: you have about 11 months
to get your shit
together
jcpham: so what's
the point now?
to learn from it
jurov: like, it's
totally
the mission of a judge
to please everyone
pigeons: it was engaged because instead of mircea_popescu just being a normal human, he used a customer service case
to not fix
the issue so he could force his customer
to sue him
to get justice, just so he could promote his rota
jcpham: regardless, someone was going
to get disappointed
dub: did he
then demand rota justice or did mircea_popescu
dub: dude sent wrong amount, it seemed like mircea_popescu was
trying
to help him sort it out
dub: sorry why was
the rota engaged?
jcpham: i mean, I don't like
the format myself
jcpham: if i'm not allowed
to change anything
jcpham: what good is
talking going
to do now
mod6: that still will be over in
the not
too distant future,
this is
the future
mod6: this is more important
then
that is
mod6: i really
thought
the court was a great idea, actually. now i just see
that we don't have
the foresight/legal wisdom
to carry it out
mircea_popescu: pigeons yeah well, you sorta misunderstand what
this is all for.
pigeons: yeah i wanted punititve damages against mircea_popescu for wasting our
time, using
the rota as a promotion, and forcing customers
to sue him just
to get
typical service
mod6: nothing less.
this is idiotic.
dub: who initiated
the rota action?
mod6: im srsly irk'd by
this
mircea_popescu: <mod6> otherwise
this just creates way more problems
then it solves << i am grasped by sudden
terror at
the realisation of
that, yes.
mod6: we can't have
these dunderhead rulings being created when people have no idea what
they're even doing
mod6: otherwise
this just creates way more problems
then it solves
jurov: jcpham, do ask, i'm curious. maybe
the overhead includes doing something interesting with
the bitches
jurov: occupy? now it's clear
to me.
jurov: like, is it so significant as
to justfy keeping whole amount?
jurov: bah, "judges" nobody asked about
the "mispaid/rounded orders create significant overhead"?
jcpham: so he won't even need
the rota
jcpham: mircea_popescu will keep
the funds in
the future
jcpham: jesus
told me
to apply
mod6: omfg why did you ask
to do
this?!?!?!
jcpham: fwiw i started
to penalize you both equally
mircea_popescu: right. cause
the bank won't do
the insane sort of shit i do
jurov: whatever. i was organizing international summercamp, bank asked us
the fee
to sort out payments with incomplete info
jcpham: i suppose it is
too late now
mircea_popescu: dawg, independence is
this concept whereby people
think autonomously
mod6: you guys need
to
think about what you're doing
jcpham: i
think mre preparation or organization is required
mircea_popescu: i guess it at least proves
they be independent ninnies.
mod6: this is
the dumbest ruling in virtual case law
mircea_popescu: you just allocated
the cost of fucking up
to me, and i'm not
the one who fucked up.
jcpham: didn't seem like an avaialble option
though