972600+ entries in 0.703s
davout: iz: just because
there are rules everybody agrees upon doesn't mean
there is a proper spec,
this has been discussed like a million
times, and it is why i wholeheartedly welcome
the cbitcoin initiative
iz: these rules include
the block size limitation
iz: and suddenly have a new version of bitcoin
that is just "better"
mircea_popescu: there's only
transactions. not good, not bad, not holy or purple.
iz: you can't just change
those rules
to "fork" bitcoin
iz: davout:
these are rules like "block reward halving
times" and such
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr
that's possibly
the most braindamaged, broken analogy you came up with so far
iz: the "spec" is by code, and defined by
the current bitcoin client
that everyone is running
iz: but
the
two systems can still communicate with each other
davout: there is no spec for
the bitcoin protocol, point = moot
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: spammers did more
than half of all emails
to date, and paid about
the same in bandwidth costs!
mircea_popescu: and when did
this chan become an unholy cross between -otc, -mining and -nonsense!
iz: and you can fingerprint differences between
them
iz: in
the same way linux and windows both conform
to
TCP, even if
they aren't implemented exactly
the same
Namworld: Luke-JR: ok, suppose someone has 100 BTC in his address and he receives 50 "tainted" coins. He now has 150 BTC. If he
then spend part of it,
there's no distinction between
the
two?
iz: kakobreklaa: it's still conforming
to
the bitcoin network protocol, even if it's not implemented exactly
the same
davout: kakobreklaa iz what are you arguing about ? may i join in your argument ? i feel bored and would enjoy bitchslapping whichever one of you
two is wrong
mircea_popescu: s.dice did about half of all
transactions
to date, and paid about half of all fees paid
to date.
iz: i'll let someone else explain
to you where you are wrong
iz: i'm not going
to argue with you, i'll let you remain ignorant if you so desire
mircea_popescu: calling
them irrational is exactly
the sort of popmassery
that you got in
trouble for earlier.
Namworld: So it strictly
tracks x.xx goes from a
to b
mircea_popescu: dude, fact of
the matter is,
the 99.8% miners
that aren't you do mine it.
iz: if
they don't
they won't work
davout: kakobreklaa:
there no non-standard mining clients
that i know of
Luke-Jr: davout: it's a logical fallacy
that mircea_popescu doesn't understand
iz: kakobreklaa:
the non-standard clients still conform
to all
the bitcoin network rules
though
davout: wtf does "no
true scotsman" mean ?
iz: sure, but it won't work on
the network
mircea_popescu: <Luke-Jr> davout: exactly,
that's part of why rational miners block it <<
this is "no
true scotsman"
iz: it would be a
takeover
Luke-Jr: davout: exactly,
that's part of why rational miners block it
iz: kakobreklaa:
then it wouldn't be a fork
Namworld: I understand
that
the blockchain contains all
the history of each individual coins?
iz: but
then it wouldn't be bitcoin
davout: Luke-Jr: so miners will have a reduced incentive
to mine
them. boom, solution is built-in
the problem
Luke-Jr: davout: SD-including blocks often
take minutes
to cross
the network
Luke-Jr: davout: every
transaction increases
the
time it
takes
to verify
the block, which occurs before each node begins relaying it
iz: kakobreklaa: but
they have
the same incentives ala
transaction fees
davout: Luke-Jr: why would a block be orphaned because it includes a SD
tx ?
Luke-Jr: davout:
the risk of orphaned blocks from SD is much greater
than any fees
they pay
iz: kakobreklaa: when
they start bumping into
the blocksize limitation,
there will be -- and
they will prioritize
the
transactions with higher
transaction fees over
the ones
that have lower ones, since
they get
the
transaction fees if
they solve
the block
Luke-Jr: kakobreklaa: every
transaction increases
the risk your block is orphaned
mircea_popescu: davout he
thinks
this will have any other result
than him being pushed out of mining.
davout: Luke-Jr: i politely beg
to differ, it's a feature, not a bug, if you do not want
these delicious
transaction fees, don't mine
the SD
txes, *boom* problem solved
kakobreklaa: iz
there is no iniciative for a miner not
to accept 1satoshi fee
TX
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr no, i know what useful means.
that's why i'm on
the money side.
iz: kakobreklaa: which is a much better problem
to have
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: you seem
to not know what useful means
iz: kakobreklaa: it solves
the problem of
the blockchain growing
too fast, by replacing it with
the problem of
transaction with low
transaction fees
take significantly longer
to process
than
transactions with larger
transaction fees
Luke-Jr: Namworld: not even VISA handles
this kind of attack
mircea_popescu: but so far,
the fact
that people can s.dice is
the only utility btc has.
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr its business model is
THE ONLY USEFUL
THING BITCOIN DOES AT
THE MOMENT.
Namworld: If
the blockchain can't handle SD
kakobreklaa: splitting
the size of blocks into smaller ones doesnt fix any problem really
iz: it's because everyone has a copy of
the blockchain
mircea_popescu: ya well, if i finally buy an asic and start mining 1tb blocks just
to be an ass
mircea_popescu: dude check it out! not one within
the past hour! sdice is going
to die omg!
davout: bitcoin attrcat people with various kinds of mental disorders,
they are an advantage in making it progress, but sometimes
they hinder social interaction i beliebe
mircea_popescu: so anyone actually know how much hash elgius is doing
these days ?
they don't seem
to have it on
the main page anywhere.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't care less, honestly, but
the pompous miner ass is getting on my nerves.
davout: but
that only matters IMO if you have
the desire
to be right
mircea_popescu: o, wait. his logic reminds me of
this chick i fired on
the 2nd date.
davout: the "none of you other people matter" attitude has one big advantage : you don't really need
to justify yourself
mircea_popescu: "there is one actual aplication making btc useful. we should act like we matter
tho we don't and pretend like we can kill it
tho we can't"
luke-jr_: davout: I prefer
to argue with logic, not "none of you other people matter"
davout: mircea_popescu: well, at least
thank you! i'm starting
to feel slightly amused :D
davout: mirea_popescu: just because i'm poor doesn't mean i know how
to read romanian
davout: it's in romanian, you just made me waste one
trilema free article
davout: mircea_popescu: i couldn't
tell
them apart, balls were
touching
mircea_popescu: who ever heard of
this bullshit even, guy does 2% of
the hash, is going
to establish whether
the one aplication deriving actual use out of bitcoin dies or not.
davout: regardless of which of you is
the most important, my cock is still
the biggest, measured in metric, imperial or
tonal
mircea_popescu: no luke, you're
the one
that likes
to
think you're important.