953200+ entries in 0.707s
bgupta: mostly wondering about ASICMINER share and
their passthrough derivates.
bgupta: Hey is it ontopic
to discuss pricing of bitcoin denominates securities in
this channel?
mjr_: i was just looking at
the last one, really great job mod6
mjr_: i was going
to say
that
the other possibility is
that you can cover
the position very easily with another option
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns
the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current
ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO)
mjr_: you could be pushing
the price up
mjr_: and if you are obligated
to buy a lot
mjr_: someone would have
to sell it
mjr_: and have
to buy it on
the open market
mjr_: technically if you need btc in order
to unwind your position
mjr_: although
that is
true...
Namworld: The lower
the price goes,
the more you owe. But
the less
the BTC costs
to cover
those larger BTC amounts.
Namworld: if
the price is 0.01 and strike is 1, you pay 99 BTC at 0.01 cent each...
mjr_: i am going
to do some exploring on a pairs strategy
mircea_popescu: anyway if btc is zero nobody would want
to be settled in btc
mircea_popescu: so if btc goes
to zero outstanding puts just get setrtled in fiat
mircea_popescu: fortunately because btc is small and fiart is large it is kinda
trivial for me
to insure against
that
pizzaman1337: "You don't hold enough assets
to
trade even one single unit of
that MPSIC. Sad, sad, sad." < lulz
mjr_: i
think i see what mircea was saying
mjr_: but if it drops
to 0
mjr_: my point is just
this...if you sold
the put, and
the price goes up 10x
Namworld: Since at strike value,
the put has 0 value.
Namworld: you get your fraction with x and remove 1
to
that.
Namworld: AActually in my example earlier, I
think it should have been 999 BTC
kakobrekla: yes pizzaman1337, 04:37.38 ( kakobrekla ) now
to be removed
pizzaman1337: kakobrekla: but wouldln't
that person want
the price
to increase?
mjr_: so anyway, let's say
the vwap is 50 and you sell puts at 50,
the price drops
to 25
pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: I
think I understand it all,
thanks. I'll have
to give it a shot sometime.
kakobrekla: maybe from
the sam guy who sold
the puts
gribble: There are currently 17873.054 bitcoins offered at or under 48.5 USD, worth 863731.319966 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 44.7354 seconds
mjr_: wait reverse
that lol
mjr_: just for example...let's say
the vwap hits $100
mircea_popescu: Namworld
they are fully covered, since you do put up enough btc
to cover for
the put in usd atthe
time you write it
mjr_: but what is
the capital requirement
mjr_: my point is
that since you COULD be on
the hook for millions of bitcoins
Namworld: If it goes
to a lower fraction, even more.
Namworld: For example, if price becomes 1/1000 of
the put's strike,
the put would be worth 1000 BTC
mjr_: hmmm yes when writing
them
Namworld: For calls,
their value
tends
toward 1. For puts
tho,
their value
tends
toward
the infinite.
Namworld: With a call, you need
to put up 1 BTC collateral so it's always 100% covered
mjr_: thats why i was wondering
the specific collateral requirements
mjr_: but usually you have
to have something
to back against
the most likely scenario
mjr_: you
technically expose yourself
to unlimited liability when you write options (at least calls)
pizzaman1337: what if
the diff is greater
than
the amount of money he has?
mircea_popescu: if btc goes
to 40, he's on
the hook for
the difference
mircea_popescu: if btc goes
to like 55 and stays htere, all
the btc he got selling he keeps
mircea_popescu: mjr_ well, if
they're not in
the money
they just dissapear
pizzaman1337: but if
they expire worthless,
than means
they made pure profit because
they don't have
to buy back worthless options?
mjr_: thought
they would only do
that if
they are in
the money
mjr_: do
they always autoexercise?
pizzaman1337: and what exactly happens when
they autoexercise?
mjr_: i meant you can send
them, but i can not display
them
pizzaman1337: in order for
that person
to "cash out"
they need
to buy puts back, right?
kakobrekla: but
thats like
turning off 1 satoshi
txes
mjr_: no worries...to be honest, i
think you can just
turn off showing joins and parts
mod6: sorry guys, just a few more
tests..
Namworld: Who's selling
that amount of puts...
mjr_: mircea_popescu: i have
to imagine
that your bot buys
them as part of a hedging strategy
pizzaman1337: every
time
the bot puts up more blocks
they're
taken out
mjr_: i just don't like
the other funding options
mjr_: you can get access
to better prices
mjr_: well...if you move
them
to btc-e
mjr_: but because i can send
them
to btc-e
mjr_: not because i particularly like
them
mjr_: i am actually
trying
to mine litecoin
Chaang-Noi: o kinda wan
t to just walk away from btc land for a month come back and see what is going on...
mjr_: s.dice is back up
too
Chaang-Noi: it si
trhe weekend and we are
trucking on up.... crazy
gribble: There are currently 33194.542 bitcoins offered at or under 50.0 USD, worth 1619455.56147 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 11.2957 seconds
gribble: There are currently 3929.1374 bitcoins offered at or under 48.0 USD, worth 188482.186888 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 0.0021 seconds
mjr_: what's
the equation for collateral?
mjr_: the bot bought
them
mjr_: whoever sold
those puts
mjr_: so,
that guy just collected 948 bitcoins
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 47.52311, Best ask: 47.90000, Bid-ask spread: 0.37689, Last
trade: 47.92886, 24 hour volume: 49410.60996836, 24 hour low: 43.41100, 24 hour high: 47.95000, 24 hour vwap: 45.95456
kakobrekla: ya but if we have 10 people using
the script and all joining and parting
mod6: heh,
this doesn't work quite like
that
mod6: na, i need
to figure out how
to msg
the bot directly :/
kakobrekla: is
that in and out going
to be a casual
thing ?
mod6: sorry about
the in and out, but it works better now, does both depth and vwap -- its all in one code file now
too.
mjr_: mircea_popescu: what is
the capital requirement for someone
to sell
the amount of puts we just saw
benkay: do you want
to do
the
trading
thing?
benkay: don't fixate on short
term
Bowjob: before
they blew up from 13 dollars
benkay: the whole education stack needs
to be online
Bowjob: thankfully, unlike most of my 20 year old contemporaries, I had
this fine idea of saving more
than i've been spending
mjr_: i was actually
thinking about
trying
to create a web based class