949400+ entries in 0.713s
RandolphDuke: the government has siphoned off
the productivity gains
through inflation/taxation and
transfered
them into none-return bearing investments
RandolphDuke: some households already have
their kids working part
time
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla seriously
tho, people need about 3 average incomes now
to maintain a 1950s lifestyle. in
the 80s needed
two.
RandolphDuke: all of
those are merely improvements of existing
technology
RandolphDuke: name an innovation in
the last 30 years
that has improved your life other
then
the internet
midnightmagic: RandolphDuke:
That's not
true at all re: not budged in 50 years.
RandolphDuke: midnightmagic: with all
the productivity gains
the government has said weve made over 50 years, 8 hours of work per week should be enough
to afford a 1950's standard of living, yet
today 2 income earners are required just
to make ends meet
jborkl: That seems reasonable
to me
mircea_popescu: presume you don't understand what's being said because of
the other person once, get shown better, stop making
the assumption. at least for a wittle while.
mircea_popescu: well
that's
true. but he already got slapped once with
the entire statistics
thing. you'd expect people a little quicker on
their feet.
jborkl: Emotions hinder rational
thought
midnightmagic: Dinner
time. Have fun
talking
to your echo chamber.
mircea_popescu: why do you presume
to guess my emotional state ? does it help something ?
midnightmagic: Pretend you are my better
then. I'm confident you don't grow out of
that no matter how
true or untrue it may be.
mircea_popescu: hm, if you won't
think
the question
too much proof of my many and varied shortcomings,
midnightmagic: So desperately certain; so patronizing. And you continue
to rail against
that which you have no control over; ineffective. Shouting into
the wind.
mircea_popescu: people have never been
this smart and yet men your age have never been
this childish.
mircea_popescu: i guess for some views
that constitutes proof of progress.
mircea_popescu: for
that matter
the raw raw raw we are
the best
the sun has ever seen is possibly
the oldest rabble rousing
talk ever. older
than Athens for sure.
mircea_popescu: where
they mean anything
they're false, where
they're not false
they're meaningless.
midnightmagic: They are. We have natural rights now
that humans have never had for basically all of recorded history.
mircea_popescu: or perhaps you're not quite up
to
the reading, seeing how it's both ancient and banal an example.
mircea_popescu: perhaps human notions of morality and ethics aren't quite as developed as all
that.
midnightmagic: Human longevity has increased; human standards of living have increased; human freedom
to pursue a healthy happy life is greater
than it ever was; human knowledge is at its greatest peak in all of history; human
treatment of disease is greater and more effective
than it has ever been, ever in all history; human notions of morality and ethics (on
the whole) are greater
than
they have ever been.
BitHub: gday maaaaate, how
the bloody hell are ya?
mircea_popescu: so : if situation A is
that 100 people die yearly in forest fires and situation B is
that 3 people die yearly in forest fires but one person is kidnapped and
tortured
to death as a religious practice which causes
the reduction in forest fires casualities, is a movement from A
to B progress in your view ?
midnightmagic: Well, it does free me up
to mock your "my success by my measure makes me right" bias.
mircea_popescu: but let us better understand
this notion of progress you use, because after all it's so messed up by commoners chewing on it.
mircea_popescu: (yes, surmise but not conclude. which is specifically why i used
that word and not
the other. i'm
trying
to help you judge here.)
midnightmagic: I surmise but not conclude, as you'll note in my previous comment about
the possibilities of why you're doing
that.
mircea_popescu: it's because i presupposed in your usage of "progress"
that you do not look at percents but absolutes.
mircea_popescu: listen,
the reason i phrased
that way is not because of a misunderstanding of statistics, as you seem inclined
to conveniently surmise.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu:
The population of
the world also went up. Your statements of statistics are flawed, and either you're doing it on purpose and waiting for me
to mock you, or you really do
think
these
things, in which case I .. well I'm not sure where
to go from
there.
mircea_popescu: you are applying it with no consideration given
to
the conditions of validity it contains
mircea_popescu: here's
the
thing :
the
theorem you cite refers
to something very speciffic.
midnightmagic: You make a nonsense assertion about Bayesian reasoning being nonsense and
then
tell me I'm incapable of cognition for saying you're making ignorant comments?
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure you lack
the cognitive
trappings
that'd allow you
to evaluate
that meta-point, so let's allow it
to go silent.
midnightmagic: I'm no sure you understand what Bayesian reasoning is at
this point.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic only if you measure
these like
the us govt measures unemployment.
mircea_popescu: also, you perhaps hold aumann in
too high a regard. he's a minor bayesian, which is another way
to say nonsense.
midnightmagic: That is a statement which is pointless: more people live longer, in better health
than in 1913.
mircea_popescu: fewer people die
today in good health
than did in 1913
midnightmagic: Aumann's agreement
theorem states one or both of us is, at
that point, being irrational.
mircea_popescu: now let's
take your progress apart. fewer people can read in
the us
today
than did in 1913.
midnightmagic: And I would say
that
those who prey on other humans and run confidence games with
them are more responsible for
the destruction you
think outweighs
the progress humans have made in science and medicine.
mircea_popescu: the only way
that collapse can be hidden is by avoiding reference
to objective standard.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: If you would like
to make a specific point about altruism rather
than make quotation-like assertions, I would be happy
to entertain it.
mircea_popescu: standards of living have been collapsing ever since welfarism (which is a good example of
the nice/cooperation confusion)
midnightmagic: Progress does exist in
the form of higher standards of living, freedom, and
the advancement of human knowledge and science.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Nor is courtesy and kindness in
the face of cruelty anything I would espouse.
mircea_popescu: you equivocate plenty in
there. progress does not exist. humans do live comfortably because
they cooperate, but
this does have no relation
to being nice.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Human progress exists because people cooperate
together, and are nice
to each other.
The peoples whose nature is
to prey on other humans,
to cast
them away, or
to be mercenary,
these are destructive elements. People who are destructive while pretending
their acts select for greater fitness is a perversion of
the nature of Darwinism which does not, in fact, match reality.
dub: its been 30 odd years since I've been
there
dub: probably need
to refamiliarise myself with
the best socioeconomic direction
dub: tbh I spent
ten minutes looking for porn and gave up
dub: be fun
to set
two points in london and
try
to navigate at full zoom
smickles: heh, actually i do
think it's funny, but it sends a bad message
smickles: jurov: phantomcircuit nailed
the second issue, my server wasn't providing enough of
the cert chain, browsers just dl
the missing parts, java needs
the whole
thing spoon-fed
to it
mircea_popescu: “Altruism does not mean mere kindness or generosity, but
the sacrifice of
the best among men
to
the worst,
the sacrifice of virtues
to flaws, of ability
to incompetence, of progress
to stagnation--and
the subordinating of all life and of all values
to
the claims of anyone's suffering.”
mircea_popescu: “The welfare state reduces a citizen
to a client, subordinates
them
to a bureaucrat, and subjects
them
to rules
that are anti- work, anti-family, anti-opportunity and anti-property... Humans forced
to suffer under such anti-human rules naturally develop pathologies.
The evening news is
the natural result of
the welfare state.”
Bowjob: my electrum wallet doesnt appear
to work lol
smickles: wtf, would
they really be on 1.5?
jurov: lol maybe
their java is outdated
smickles: mircea_popescu: when 'they'
try
to send a callback
to my server,
their software gives
them "Error sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable
to find valid certification path
to requested
target" and gives up
smickles: lol, yeah, import my cert into
their java. anyway, sent :)
jurov: maybe you'll have
to import
them into java
then
jurov: i dunno. so 1DzxV3arKg22TfVYx4nw1rLFJmjLTnXHi7
then
smickles: yeah, it's in
there, and has been in
there
jurov: yea
that should work
smickles: is
that what you're
talking about?
jurov: i remember i had
to add
them all cause some browser was unhappy
jurov: does apache provide all certs in chain or only
the your one and
the CA?
smickles: their java install doesn't seem
to
think my cert is a good cert
smickles: blockchain.info's api making a callback
to my server
smickles: but now,
the
thing
that prompted me
to do
this is giveing another error
smickles: hmm, i'm going
to have
to send a new csr
to
those guys now, arn't i