944400+ entries in 0.717s
mircea_popescu: these
two are all
there's available
to you. if you're not speaking in verse,
then it's prose. necessarily.
mircea_popescu: if it's not your idea of how
things should be and it's not your idea of beauty, and it's not what you expect
the gods want
then what is it
midnightmagic: Just simple disappointment because I was considering at last doing a
trade-in of my Icarus but I don't want
them
to charge me batch #3 prices.
mircea_popescu: what deflection ? yer
the one
trying (kinda lame-y)
to impugn or whatever.
midnightmagic: I wouldn't call it aesthetic nor ethical objection
to a price increase.
mircea_popescu: vast conspiracies of evil people whispering me basic law in
the ear
midnightmagic: lol, I'm apparently important enough
to misquote and reputationally impugn
twice as retaliation for not being part of your echo chamber.
mircea_popescu: or are you about
to
tell me you're metaphisically dissapointed ?
mircea_popescu: you're not quite
that important, sorry
to burst
that bubble.
midnightmagic: It would provide
the underpinnings of an excuse for what you're doing on your blog.
midnightmagic: I wonder if you
take my words and argue
them with other people...
mircea_popescu: what, an aesthetic rather
than ethical consideration ?
midnightmagic: I am disappointed in
the price increase if
that's what you're asking.
midnightmagic: Until
then, I'm not going
to discount his vastly understated Icarus+Lancelot contributions simply because some random guy asserts a bunch of unsubstantiated rumours
to
troll others into providing information when he could just ask.
mircea_popescu: so
this is all fine & dandy best you can determine
then ?\
midnightmagic: Moving on, if and when
there is in fact evidence
that ngzhang is acting unethically (I do not view a price increase on its own as unethical) I will be happy
to eat my own words.
midnightmagic: Tell whoever it is who's giving you
those words
to explain
them better next
time.
midnightmagic: Since I am no longer confident I am arguing just with you, I'm going
to stop now.
midnightmagic: It almost seems as
though you have misinterpreted your own assertions.
mircea_popescu: anyway,
the shocker for me in all
this is
that i
thought all
this is plain obvious
to anyone considering
the matter.
midnightmagic: You are making comments about suing
them into oblivion, while simultaneously ignoring jurisdiction.
midnightmagic: You are speaking of
two orthogonal points it seems
to me.
Namworld: They don't appear universal. Opinions seems
to differ greatly on
the
topic.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i have no idea about chinese law. my judgement as
to ethics is based on my space, not
theirs.
mircea_popescu: they could have *maybe* weaseled it past if
they just kept doing
the same
thing.
mircea_popescu: pigeons i don't recall
them asking / me caring at
that
tiem.
mircea_popescu: actually, if bfl delivering weren't such a moot point, i'd be collecting
these rights as we speak and sueingthem into oblivion anyway
pigeons: well why didnt you bring it up when
they started
pigeons: why didnt you
tell
them and
they buyers
that "give me money and ill build something for you and mail it
to you" legally means you get equity in
the company
too in your made up world when
they stated
taking orders
midnightmagic: kakobrekla: Actually,
to be honest, I wish
there were complete logs of
this channel up somewhere..
mircea_popescu: now, on
the basis of
this, if you later charge more per item
than what you've disbursed
to your original equity holders,
mircea_popescu: now,
this is how
things are.
this isn't open
to debate, it's long established point of law. you're welcome
to challenge it, but it can't be challenged by simple personal exceptionalism.
midnightmagic: kakobrekla: I have a problem with
the quoting mircea does. It's illegal.
kakobrekla: midnightmagic cool
then you wont have problems with quoting.
mircea_popescu: and if no such agreement exists,
to an equitable stake.
mircea_popescu: point 3 : any capital
transfer with a view of a common enterprise is an equity buy, entitling
the payer
to a stake in
the common enterprise, as agreed
midnightmagic: kakobrekla: I am aware
that
this channel was made a publically-logged channel (but not in
the
topic) as a
top-down directive because you are in
the #bitcoin-* namespace.
kakobrekla: well or before if you see
the web page first.
pigeons: you are off
the deep end mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: becaue of
this, any purported sale of inexistant mining equipment is
to be quashed as such.
kakobrekla: midnightmagic you should read
that before you join or /part
mircea_popescu: point 2 : any purchase may only be entertained by a seller of an existant item. nobody can sell what
they don't own.
midnightmagic: kakobrekla: Actually, channel rules don't supercede explicitly-defined moral rights under
the copyright acts of both Canada and Romania.
pigeons: that's supposed
to mean
they werent supposed
to
take money
to develop asics
then deliver
the asics?
mircea_popescu: so for instance if you pay a girl five dollars
to feel her underwear and she sucks your cock while you do it
mircea_popescu: any capital exchange will be for consideration.
the nature of
this consideration is not
the empire of
the parties, but a matter of fact.
midnightmagic: Okay go ahead. Also, you don't have my permission
to quote anything I've said
today.
mircea_popescu: yeah, if we can get
to it, i'd like
to explain
this pre order money
thing, cause it's what's important here.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Primarily, you have said
that
the b3 update shows
they are unethical. So far you have said "they
took preorder money" and "they mined prior
to sale" as your claims for
this
to be so. Anything else?
mircea_popescu: proving its not at all will be
too hard
to be worth it, so can we just leave it aside ?
mircea_popescu: anyway,
this entire pre miningargument is a waste of
time. i said "a little", you so far are making a case it's not a lot, maybe it;'s not a lot.
pigeons: no wonder people dont
tell you who
they are every
time
they
turn up some units mircea
pigeons: why are
they such logistical geniouses
that
they had
their units way ahead of sheculed when it bankrupted everyone else so far ahead of schedule
they could pre mine except
the hashrate and genratded coins dont show it
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Which mystery miner is
this you're
talking about, anyway?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic
there was a one
thing doingmore
than asic at some point.
mircea_popescu: pigeons again,
the mystery miner people
thought was asicminer.
pigeons: why did
their pre-mining yeild
them no coins or increased hashrate
midnightmagic: I posit an alternate explanation:
they purchased or had available
the case metal prior
to assembly, sitting in a supply bay somewhere.
pigeons: no, go
to
the factory,
take something off
the line put it in a box for 2.5 days,
then run your finger over it
mircea_popescu: are you
taking some sort of microscopic dust approach ?
pigeons: there is plenty of evidence
that each unit shipped and reported delivered corresponded with
the estimated hashrate, and on
the other hand you calim someone had dust
mircea_popescu: woe upon me for
trying
to give bitcoi nnoobs chances etc.
pigeons: no wonder you
thought enough alike
to have his assets in your cdos
mircea_popescu: pigeons yes, but i consider
that a sidepoint of little importance
mircea_popescu: so let's
try and follow
this logic see where
the problems lie.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Ethical is what's we're
talking about here isn't it?
mircea_popescu: sure, for bitcoin widespread mining is
the best outcome.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Actually, it's more ethical
to ensure widespread device installation.
mircea_popescu: they claimed
they're selling an item, but
the item didn't at
the
time exist.
the people "pre ordering" simply made equity contributions.
pigeons: and
the people who got
them are happy
mircea_popescu: the only equitable way here is for avalon
to recognise everyone
that paid
them for rigs for
their equity contribution, and distribute revenue from now on.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: If
they are doing what you're saying,
then
that is utter bullshit.
Total crap, because it's competing with
their own customers.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Someone's making money, money is king, except when you don't directly benefit.
Then you suddenly grow a conscience?
mircea_popescu: i'm seriously
the only one of us
three seeing an issue here ?
midnightmagic: After 900 units, a giant and sudden price spike, and
the fact
they honour
trade-ins from previous customers? How shockingly unethical </sarcasm>