941600+ entries in 0.662s
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: i just said bitcoin is BETTER
to save in
ThickAsThieves: they woiuld have
the maximum amount of
their money in btc
tiberiusiv: if
they spent it,
they missed out on
the gains
tiberiusiv: they would only have done well if
they saved 100%
jurov: and added safety
that once
they convert, no one can freeze it
jurov: i'm
talking about BOTH spending and saving
tiberiusiv: vs being down 5% off
the bat just in exchange.
tiberiusiv: its cheaper
to use
the fiat
to buy
the goods you need
jurov: again, why you
think one can't convert
their fiat income right after payday and
then use btc exclusively?
tiberiusiv: of which nobody has other
then a
tiny %
tiberiusiv: jurov:
that means you cant cash buy BTC without breaking
the law
tiberiusiv: again
the customer base for bitcoinstore is
too small
to be a viable business
jurov: and even here business cash
transactions over 1000 euro are illegal
tiberiusiv: and
the last
thing someone with frozen funds is going
to be doing is shopping for laptops on bitcoinstore
jurov: it isn't reported in media, but in greece it happened several
times already in past 5 years
jurov: for example in whole eastern europe it often happens
that banks are closed
tiberiusiv: the only externality is someone who doesnt have access
to fiat and obtains BTC somehow
jurov: what about
the externalities? you didn't reply
to
that
tiberiusiv: but
there suppliers have
to be paid in fiat
tiberiusiv: no
that seller probably sells 10x in fiat
tiberiusiv: they are resorting
to begging
tactics for sales
tiberiusiv: other
then people who cant obtain
the fiat
tiberiusiv: but you still are overpaying in
the long run
jurov: there it's much simpler
to pay btc
than
to convert back
to fiat
tiberiusiv: selling electronics and accepting BTC
to sell for USD
to pay suppliers, will NEVER be cheaper
then just using fiat
jurov: what about people getting "short" fiat and converting everything
to btc?
tiberiusiv: the only way BTC is cheaper is if
the business is completely BTC based
tiberiusiv: if you spent your bitcoins 3months ago on a new
television, you just paid 300% more for it
then paying with fiat
jurov: if
they are elided, btc prices can be lower
there
jurov: such as credit card
taxes and regulatory bs in many areas
tiberiusiv: jurov: nope in a fixed monetary system
the prices will never be cheaper
then fiat.
ThickAsThieves: what if
they run off loaned money and
then achieve dominance
gwillen: tiberiusiv:
that's now how gresham's law works
tiberiusiv: people will always spend
their bad money(fiat) first
tiberiusiv: we arent argueing, i was simply explaining its impossible for a business
that accepts BTC only
to be viable against a fiat competitor
jurov: i'd say
they are under
their control practically
jurov: no, 90%. if i have btcs on blockchain.info, who controls
them?
jurov: and
thet most of volume is gambling and speculation (often indistinguishable from each other)
tiberiusiv: and 1% will end up with 90% of
the coins
jurov: um, and what are we arguing about? i agree
that 1% btc users control over 90% of everything
tiberiusiv: and
then
they cannot cover
their shorts, ie come up with
the fiat
to buy BTC at 10x
the price
to repay a loan
jurov: plus i'm sure
there were other
tens of people who mined in 2009-2011 and now
their income is nicely boosted
tiberiusiv: thats why
there is so many scammers, most borrowers are short selling BTC and posting nothing as collateral
tiberiusiv: which is a statistical 0 when compared
to
the 100k+ BTC users
ThickAsThieves: i'm playing a drinking game, every
time
tiberius quotes a % with authority
jurov: okay but not "less
than 5"
tiberiusiv: as i said, we are at 0.001% of
total users?
jurov: at least one of
them gets salary from btc foundation
Namworld: They were
the
two largest public miners.
tiberiusiv: which is not even 5 people at
this point
Namworld: There's less
than 25% of what's available
that's actually good/interesting at all
tho.
tiberiusiv: namworld: you can only lend BTC
to people/entities
that have BTC derived income
Namworld: Good selection of BTC stocks seems
to be
the way
to go.
Namworld: I
tried lending and it burned. I
tried buying/flipping/holding stocks and it's a huge success. I
tried options but I'm kind of failing at
that.
smickles: wouldn't ya know it. I go
to spend some bitcoins, and
the product is on backorder :|
tiberiusiv: thats why any business selling goods
that can be obtained with fiat will not be successful.
tiberiusiv: you want
to get rid of
the "bad" money first
tiberiusiv: are you going
to want
to get rid of your BTC or your Fiat first?
tiberiusiv: suppose you want
to purchase a $1k laptop
tiberiusiv: theres no reason
to spend BTC on anything other
then SK or gambling
Namworld: and
there's not legit BTC spenders
tiberiusiv: all markets in
the world are speculative in nature
Namworld: Which is what makes me
think
the whole current price is mostly speculation
Namworld: I
think most of
the current price is speculation
tiberiusiv: theres only 2
things you really need BTC for if you want
to spend, silkroad and gambling
tiberiusiv: cashing in
to buy BTC
to
trade for something else is not
Namworld: Well
that's not really speculation
to me if it's for cashing out/buying some BTC
tiberiusiv: out of
the
tens of
thousands of metal miners, not even a handful are profitable
Namworld: Most of minings
thing end up being a losing proposition it seems.
Namworld: mining doesn't seem viable
to me anymore
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves:
the reality is
that
there are barely any viable bitcoin derived income producers
tiberiusiv: 100k which is 1% of bitcoins in circulation would collapse
the price
temporarily into
the 30's