930900+ entries in 0.69s
sturles: Based on simple counting of
trades in #bitcoin-market.
taub: that is a nice feature, but it lags
the engine down
sturles: taub: A few
things can be done, yes. An important (to me) feature of MtGox is
the ability
to have inactive orders (due
to lack of funds) automatically activated when funds arrive. Removing
this feature, and only allowing funded orders, will speed up
the exchange a lot. But it will also remove an important feature making
the exchange less attractive for
that reason.
mircea_popescu: can you show me some documentation somewhere for
this part : "MtGox process more
than 10
trades a second even during high load.
The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher."
taub: and checks if you have enough balance
to put in an order
taub: i dont
think
the matching engine can focus on matching ... it also calculates new balances etc
taub: they have
to decouple
their frontside with registration, account management etc from
their
trading engine
sturles: Or are you comparing apples
to oranges again?
Trades != order book changes.
sturles: mircea_popescu: Does mpex really process 2k
trades simultaneously for
the same asset?
taub: not sure about
that :)
sturles: None of
them come close
to MtGox in speed.
taub: arent
there like multiple open source exchanges?
sturles: MtGox process more
than 10
trades a second even during high load.
The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher.
sturles: How many simultaneous orders do you
think MtGox gets? My home network isn't able
to handle
their socketio feed of order book changes when
the lag approaches 300s.
mircea_popescu: this is
their engine choking, it can't process fast enough.
mircea_popescu: look
through
their historical list, rarely will
they report anything over 100
trades a minute, even at
the height of height.
mircea_popescu: yes.
the problem here is
this : mpex gets 2k simultaneous orders, lag stays under .2
sturles: Yes, and when
the book overlaps?
sturles: With only one asset
to
trade, it is impossible
to match
two orders at
the same
time.
sturles: No sneaking in
the order queue.
sturles: Two bids can not be matched against
the same ask, for one
thing. You need locking. MtGox also process all orders in strict sequence.
mircea_popescu: suppose 2000 users all happened
to put an order in at
the same
time.
sturles: MtGox does no simultaneous orders for
the same currency (BTC), because
there is one order book. Like a stock exchange
trading only one stock.
TradeFortress: gox orders do
tend
to fill more asks/bids, don't
they?
mircea_popescu: as far as i know
the most mtgox can
take is something
to
the order of 10 simultaneous orders. certainly not 100.
sturles: Howe many
trades per second?
sturles: mircea_popescu: At what frequency? How many
trades per second?
mircea_popescu: that's
the key factor. get back
to me when you see it over .2 or so.
sturles: An exchange handles a very limited part of
the exchange process.
mircea_popescu: once
they get
that nothing prevents
them from being
their own amtrade
mircea_popescu: the model doesn't work
tho,
they need a platform
to
trade on.
sturles: It is more of a broker
than an exchange.
mircea_popescu: listen, just because you
think it is doesn't make it so.
sturles: Stock exchanges work by letting licenced brokers do
their dirty work.
mircea_popescu: so
then what difference do you see between what i wrote and what you wrote above ?
sturles: Yes, I know a few
things about exchanges and how
they work.
mircea_popescu: because
there seem
to be pretty huge disconnects here i can't quite bridge.
mircea_popescu: other
than being involved in bitcoin, do you know anything about exchanges etc ?
sturles: MtGox wouldn't be dreaming of
their current volume if
they converted
to a
traditional stock exchange model.
mircea_popescu: listen, not
to be an ass, but are you at all qualified
to discuss
this
topic ?
sturles: mircea_popescu:
That was not what I wrote.
mircea_popescu: sturles you don't believe six handles more
trade
thoroughput
than mtgox ?!
TradeFortress: but
that doesn't make it something you should accept
sturles: And I don't believe SIX has more people
talking
to
their API
than MtGox. Not for a second.
TradeFortress: I'm pretty sure many exchanges are going
to hit similar amounts of lag if
they reach gox's amount of users and
trades
mircea_popescu: sturles "Thanks
to high capacity reserves and an average round-trip latency of just 37 microseconds for equity
trading, investment decisions can be implemented faster and risks adjusted more quickly"
sturles: If it is so simple
to make something better, you should go ahead and do it.
sturles: The "shithole mtgox" happens
to be
the only bicoin
trading site able
to handle
this number of
traders and activity.
taub: i wonder what
they do over
there srsly
taub: There are a few
things
that we can implement
to help fight
the attacks, such as disconnecting
the
trade engine backend from
the Internet. By separating
the data center from
the Mt.Gox website, we will continue
to be able
to
trade
mircea_popescu: sturles are you about
to propose shithole mtgox doing 100mn a month is larger an operation
than six ?
sturles: mircea_popescu: You want something else. And you are free
to make something completely different from MtGox if you
think it will be successfull. I don't.
mircea_popescu: and
they will end up having
to use brokers and separate clearance.
sturles: How many
thousands of
traders does
the swiss stock exchange have directly connected
to
their API?
mircea_popescu: they're implementing
the separate
trade engine model (which is good)
taub: steady lag of more
than a minute is not working by far
TradeFortress: most people aren't gonna get gpg
to
trade on an exchange. seriously
mircea_popescu: sturles you don't seem
to understand
that everything
that works works like mpex.
taub: betfair is just a big exchange, probably more volume
than mtgox
mircea_popescu: but soon enough
they'll figure
the advantages of splitting it and
that'll be
that.
sturles: Any exchange can copy
the mpex and
try
that model if
they
think it wioll work for a publick high volume exchange with high liquidity and
trading volume. I don't.
mircea_popescu: which apparently makes me a rare bird, but
that's really irrelevant.
taub: there needs
to be clearing houses/ brokers
mircea_popescu: they'll copy
the mpex model whether
they want
to or not, because
the mpex model is not an accident
mircea_popescu: again :
this is not up
to discussion. if you want
to do
this you'll have
to do it. otherwise it's not done.
sturles: And
they don't have
to handle balances.
taub: well, i'll be moving over
to bitfloor and
try
them
sturles: mircea_popescu:
Those are not for public use. You have
to pay $$$$$$$ for a licence
to connect.
mircea_popescu: sturles each and every national exchange. ~100 of
them.
sturles: taub: Do you know about any better exhanges? Any faster exchanges? Any other exchanges able
to handle
their load?
mircea_popescu: exchange and clearance are sepparate not because peopl;e have nothing better
to do with
their
time, for instance.