928100+ entries in 0.645s
mod6: that was me just
testin
the water
there, but
that was dumb.
mircea_popescu: i distinguish
too. it's not
that
they're not
trustworthy. it's
that
they're fraudulent.
mod6: (10:30) < MJR__> I would say
that
torbroker seems definitely not fraudulent << i read about
this. sounds great until
they scam out like
TorWallet
MJR__: I guess I distinguish between fraudulent and
trustworthy
mircea_popescu: invitation
to invest, but neglects
to share business plan ? it's a ponzi.
mircea_popescu: on what basis do you say
that it "seems definitely not fraudulent" ?
MJR__: but without any evidence of fraud, I can't call
them fraudulent
MJR__: we can agree
to disagree on
that
MJR__: if
their services are useful ,
they'll do ok
MJR__: I would say
that
torbroker seems definitely not fraudulent
mircea_popescu: we are merely
trying
to distinguish business from fraud here.
MJR__: Eastman Kodak was successful until
they weren't
mircea_popescu: their busienss model is fine.
their execution inept as all hell, but
they have a model.
MJR__: and dependent on
time scale
mircea_popescu: being
the first
to offer exchange services is not sustainable ?
MJR__: ok, I don't
think
their business model looked sustainable
mircea_popescu: they suck, sure. but
thast's not what we're discussing.
MJR__: they suck, I would have written
them off
mircea_popescu: so
then what part of obvious you have
tyrouible with :D
MJR__: there is no question of
their current success
MJR__: so I wouldn't
throw out everything, and miss a success
mircea_popescu: there are a lot of failures which can be readily identified by
the fact
they're not successes
MJR__: but I
think it's been proven
that
there will be many failures and a few successes
MJR__: so, only point is
that a see a scenario where it could work,
therefore not a stupid plan,
though it may be stupidly implemented and fail
mod6: so i brewed
this cup of coffee an hour ago and forgot about it...
gribble: There are currently 3155.8286 bitcoins offered at or under 165.0 USD, worth 513901.693219 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 0.0014 seconds
mircea_popescu: this is not by design of
the game of poker.
this is because being bigger means you are better.
MJR__: and...without knowing who is behind
this, or what exactly
they are doing and how well, I would say
that I can picture a scenario where it works
mircea_popescu: in any game of straight no limit poker
the larger stash has better odds.
MJR__: overall system is designed
to benefit
the big guy
MJR__: maybe a few
tokens...
mircea_popescu: plenty of rules are in place
to protect
the stupid little guy.
MJR__: do you
think rules are in place
to protect
the little guy?
MJR__: are you a fan of
the SEC? im not
mircea_popescu: which will be flagged in every sec insider
trader investigation from now on.
mircea_popescu: is ghoing
to be done just as wewll by a kid and his etrade acct.
MJR__: there is value in anon
trades
MJR__: or, I want
to do
this quietly
to not spook
the market (obviously not now,
too small)
MJR__: don't want MY name on
this
trade
mircea_popescu: so
the huge counterparty risk
they introduce is for
the sake of sharing an etrade acct ?! whoa.
MJR__: to allow others
to do anon stock
trades
MJR__: they'll use
their access
MJR__: whoever
they are,
they have some etrade account or w/e
MJR__: lol,
there is where we disagree
mircea_popescu: i can't legally and safely buy whatever pills
the sr kids do
MJR__: what I would say, and I don't want
to delve into
the relative pros and cons, is
that DPR and SR, managed
to create a market using
trust...this is more similar
to
that
mircea_popescu: [\\\] hey how much did you ever pay back off
the shakaru fund ?
MJR__: I fail
to see how
that doesn't make sense
mircea_popescu: and jurov has a good sidepoint
there : my system made sense.
the system whereby you buy fiat stocks in btc makes none.
MJR__: well, I agree, my point was only can you not
trust
them up
to
their reserve
MJR__: maybe
that's false
MJR__: I would assume
they would only go up
to
that point
MJR__: well
that was my obvious point
mircea_popescu: as it is... it's nothing. any scammer can (and indeed would) do
that.
MJR__: I care up
to 1k BTC
mircea_popescu: if
they simultaneously limited investment
to no more
than
that it'd help.
mircea_popescu: ok.
the problem is
tghey are flashing 1k btc. nobody cares.
jurov: MJR__:
the
trust was bootstrapped upon mircea having workable scheme from MPOE
MJR__: and
they say we will put
this up as collateral
MJR__: so if
they have 1000 BTC
to start (not a lot)
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 156.89999, Best ask: 157.08000, Bid-ask spread: 0.18001, Last
trade: 156.89999, 24 hour volume: 45819.40710651, 24 hour low: 142.01000, 24 hour high: 162.90000, 24 hour vwap: 150.64715
mircea_popescu: i simply moved capital (of
trust, of fiat, of w/e_) from irl
to btc.
MJR__: looking back it's easy
to see
mircea_popescu: or else you do what
the holders of
trust say you must do.
mircea_popescu: the story will repeat itself. either you have
the power
to draw sufficient force from outside
MJR__: yes, but
that doesn't obviate
the need for
trust in you
mircea_popescu: their boat sunk. i won. my people, who are in btc because
they
trusted me and i
trusted btc,
mircea_popescu: mpex was built by me, and joined by people who only had any
trust in btc because i said so.
MJR__: but,
that had
to be built over
time, which means at some point, someone decided
to
trust and risk
MJR__: am I missing something? I
trust you more or less implicitly in
this space
MJR__: we
trust you will pay options out...
MJR__: yes...but now you hold
the shares in sdice...
MJR__: better phrasing if no one decided
to
trust it
MJR__: if EVERYONE did not risk
trust in mpex, how could it start?
jurov: MJR__: yes he had, but it's not
total score
that counts
MJR__: mircea_popescu:
thanks
mircea_popescu: there;'s somebody with a
track record
to judge based on.
mircea_popescu: i don't care how it makes you feel,
this isn't about feelings.