917700+ entries in 0.674s
MJR_: Scrat: didn't specify in
this article, but almost guaranteed
to be encrypted
gribble: MtGox lag is 1.059392 seconds. During
this
time, light
travels 0.00212300970646 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin across
the outer diameter of Saturn's rings (0.0024 AU).
MJR_: it didn't specify if it was a n of m scheme, but i
thought i read
that somewhere
MJR_: thats what
they did with
their 11,000 coins
MJR_: saved
them on small flash drives, putting
the drives, in
turn, in safe deposit boxes at banks in
three different cities.
joecool: MJR_: i
thought he was in hiding
MJR_: he's back by
the way
mod6: joecool: you got zhou
tong'd!?
joecool: pretty much don't put your coin in anything you don't manage if you can't stand
to lose it
MJR_: check out
the winklevii security system
joecool: the biggest loss i had was in
that whole bitcoinica debacle
joecool: seems like a solid
thing
to do
MJR_: i am just saying, if i had 11,000 bitcoins...10,500 would be only accessible with a multisig
transaction with
the horcruxes split up into 7 locations lol
MJR_: but every copy means one more copy
that COULD be compromised
MJR_: so
that is
the
tradeoff...how much convenience or security do you need,
the best way is
to keep large portions in a paper wallet. a little bit on your home computer encrypted, and spending money in an online wallet
truff1es: id be nervous if i had a lot of digital money
these days
MJR_: but it is really inconvenient
to go
to a safe deposit box
to get a paper wallet you left
there, but you will almost certainly not be hacked
MJR_: it is very convenient
to use a wallet you dn't control...but if
they are hacked your coins are gone
MJR_: it usually comes down
to convenience vs security
truff1es: so what i learned
today, mt gox is good for easy access
to wallets
MJR_: i
think eventually,
there will be
the equivalent of "lawyers" for crafting really complicated
transactions
joecool: backquotes are all
the rage for scamming atm
joecool: truff1es: oh i was
trying
to scam on neofutur's nick
MJR_: or else it would be simple
to see where
the coins end up
MJR_: but of course you should probably use a nice big round number, or a bunch of 1btc
transactions
MJR_: the
transaction is where you are specifying
that you will send
THEM
the coins, and
trust
them
to forward
them where you want
them
to go
MJR_: if you choose
to send
the coins, you are crafting a
transaction
MJR_: the wallet is not a
transaction
MJR_: ...no, i don't
think it could be
MJR_: the mixing service is not
the same as
their mywallet product
MJR_: they charge a fee for
that
MJR_: i
think you have
to specifically mix
the coins, and in
that case you are
trusting
them
to send coins where you asked
them
to be sent
truff1es: okay
thanks for
the explainations
MJR_: in effect,
they are providing
the service of access
to your wallet.dat file from anywhere, as well as a client software
that can craft
transactions for you, but
they do not have
the ability
to spend your coins
MJR_: so, if
their system is honest and does what
they say it does,
they have no ability
to send your coins
MJR_: it is encrypted using a passphrase
that only you know
MJR_: huh? your wallet.dat file is stored on
their server so you can access it from anywhere using a browser
truff1es: im not getting it, why do
that when everyone has wallet.dat's?
MJR_: and
they have no access
to it
MJR_: they can store
the wallet.dat encrypted
MJR_: they encrypt in your browser, not on
their server
MJR_: no private key
to
the address you have with
them
MJR_: and yes, blockchain.info's mywallet's CLAIM (and no reason
to doubt
this so far)
that
they do not know your private key
MJR_: simple rule of
thumb, if you konw
the private key,
they are yours, if you don't you are
trusting someone
to do as you wish in
the future
MJR_: just saying,
the fact you don't know
the private key
to
the address you send
to (correct me if
that is not
the case) means
that you have given up control over your coins and are
trusting
them
to send
them where you want, when you want
truff1es: no idea how it works
there so im just going with what is said itc
MJR_: the coins you have on mt. gox are
technically more like coin certificates...
truff1es: <ThickAsThieves> basically its only bitcoin when you move
the money out of
their system>> whose system?
MJR_: and you can do
that with bitcoin, if you can convince people
to deposit
their money into your care
MJR_: in
the same way
that if i deposit money in my bank account,
they don't store
that cash in a box with my name on it
ThickAsThieves: basically its only bitcoin when you move
the money out of
their system
MJR_: they are
transaction networks
KRS1: so its customer -> your service/network -> bitcoin for
the end
transaction -> bitcoin
MJR_: not
to put
too fine a point on it, but visa and mastercard don't actually deal with money at all
MJR_: that process can
take a lot longer
than a day
MJR_: for
truff1es and KRS1: even
though
the
transaction seems fast on your side, visa doesn't actually move
the money when you swipe
the card...that process usually
takes place when
the business gets
the deposit from
the bank
that used visa or mastercard
gribble: MtGox lag is 0 seconds. During
this
time, light
travels 0.0 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ... nowhere, really (0 AU).
MJR_: mt gox
transfers are fast as lightning
KRS1: all im sayin is it
takes a bunch of
time for a bitcoin
transaction
to go
through..credit card
transactions are as fast as lightning
MJR_: so, if i can attract people
to my bank, where i won't keep a bitcoin
to back every bitcoin credit you have in your account...i can do
that
truff1es: <MJR_> in fact, eventually a small portion of all
transactions will go
to
the blockchain>> please elaborate
MJR_: most will simply be accounting entries in businesses,
the same way
the current economy works
MJR_: in fact, eventually a small portion of all
transactions will go
to
the blockchain
MJR_: yes,
they do...and
the network doesn't care what
transactions you do...the point of anyone like paypal creating reversible
transactions is
that
they hold your account...they don't need
to put
that on
the blockchain
MJR_: everyone is free
to do what
they want with it
KRS1: dont
the
transactions go
through
the network
KRS1: i couldnt see bitcoin doing
that
KRS1: they can barely make computers/networks
to keep up with
them all
MJR_: i just
take it out of your account
KRS1: visa
transactions for instance get recorded at mind boggling speeds and numbers
MJR_: you could do
that with bitcoins
ThickAsThieves: paypal introcuding reversable
transactions
to "verfied" Xcoin accounts would be seen as a great feature
to some
KRS1: how could
the network keep pace with all
the
transactions..as it is, it
takes my btc 30 mins minimum
MJR_: but
the point is
that
they are just as free as anyone else
to adopt
the protocol
MJR_: i
think it may even eventually be necessary for paypal
to integrate with bitcoin
truff1es: paypal would make bitcoin more popular other
than
that..
MJR_: some people would appreciate
that
MJR_: they could reverse bitcoin
transactions if
they hold
the account
MJR_: if i don't like
that paypal reverses
transactions, i simply don't use
them
MJR_: if i want
to send money
to silk road, and paypal says no, i can still just do it myself
MJR_: point is, if i don't like paypal's policies i don't have
to use
them either
ThickAsThieves: you dont need a wallet or
to understand anything about bitcoin
MJR_: and i agree
that paypal accepting bitcoin could be a good
thing
MJR_: since i don't have
to use bitcoin-qt,
they don't control me
MJR_: i
think we just disagree on what control is