917500+ entries in 0.693s
mircea_popescu: also isn't it
traditional
to have a square box with shadow and reflection underneath ?
mircea_popescu: i
turn around, look at irc, it's... hey! read
this! now you
tell me.
mircea_popescu: somebody was visiting and
they were "why are you always on irc anyway"
MJR_: don't let
this opportunity pass you by
MJR_: it sure does, you would be a fool
to pass
this up
BTCOxygen: Don't miss out
the great Opportunity.
BTCOxygen: If anyone wants
to Invest please PM me.
MJR_: yeah, i really want
to send money
to someone online
MJR_: OMG yes!
tell me more!
MJR_: anyway,
the point is
that people's genes don't matter, what
they do matters
MJR_: please
take me off your list
MJR_: lol,
that was a great
thread, and i love erik's response
MJR_: that is its price...whatever someone is willing
to pay
MJR_: anyway,
the main rule for "valuation" is something is worth whatever i can sell it for
MJR_: he pointed
the gun at me,
then fired...i assume his motive is
to do me harm
MJR_: you can judge people's motives based on what
the probable outcome is...that is how we do it now
MJR_: and if i
think
they are it isn't worth my
time...tiberius is a perfect example, he will recycle arguments, switch
to ad hominem, it is very easy
to spot
MJR_: point is
there is disagreeing, where
their motive is
to discuss, and
there is
trolling where
their motive is
to get an emotional reaction...
MJR_: and
typically respond
MJR_: the fact i haven't ignored you, and i don't really plan
to, says
that i listen
to your questions
MJR_: for you
to say
that
they are "unworthy of my attention" is kinda silly since i have been nothing but actively
talking
to you
mircea_popescu: impossible
to make something
that'd work in all designs
mircea_popescu: we could have it as
the community cake so 1 year old services can put it on
their site
MJR_: also, i liked
those meme pics
MJR_: because no one will give
them what
they want, attention
MJR_: truffles usually
trolls mildly enough
that i haven't ignored, but for example eskimobob or
tiberiusiv
MJR_: although i did say if everyone ignored
them
mircea_popescu: not exactly zero. for instance
truffles is on my ignore, you keep
talking
to
them, i'm like mmmmkay.
MJR_: the funny
thing is
that most people do
the opposite,
they engage
the
troll
MJR_: how much value does someone get in a chan where no one can hear
them?
mircea_popescu: this is in fact
the best definituion of
trolling, and it's ultimate reservoir : people's indomitable will
to dominate
their environment
mircea_popescu: except
the main property of
trolling is
that it's immune
to attempts at changing
the value proposition./
MJR_: just saying without understanding
the incentives in a situation, you can't change
that situation in a controlled manner
MJR_: so now
that you have a more accurate picture of
the value proposition, you can change
the incentives
to stop
trolls
MJR_: why would it be worth someones
time?
they do it for
the "lulz"
MJR_: it should not exist...but it does...so wasting your
time online making arguments you know
to be false is worth your
time
MJR_: point was, if you don't account for "lulz" you will never understand
trolling
MJR_: to some people, posting pictures of
themselves online with sharpies stuck up
their asses was
the RATIONAL choice
MJR_: you will accept if it seems valuable based on whatever metrics you choose
to use,
the point is
that if you accept, its
the rational choice based on your perceived utility/benefit
MJR_: if i make an offer
to you, you can ignore/reject or you can accept
MJR_: but
truffles also brought up an interesting question...what if it all seems
to me
to be roughly equal in value?
that is where randomness and chance play a role, a role
that we have
tried
to minimize (though people still flip coins from
time
to
time when
they can't decide)
mircea_popescu: most people in shitty countries (like
the us) are
taught not
to punish
mircea_popescu: however, it's hard
to quantify. some men pay women
to abuse
them for instance.
mircea_popescu: MJR_> it is actually ($0+punishing
that guy) vs ($10+feeling cheated) << good point
that.
mircea_popescu: "I can assure you btcrow.com is not into defrauding anyone. We've processed
transactions over 500 BTC at a
time."
MJR_: it is actually ($0+punishing
that guy) vs ($10+feeling cheated)
MJR_: in
this case, short sighted economists view it as a choice between $0 and $10, but
that is not
the whole picture
MJR_: it is a simple equation...you are deciding between
two choices, whichever choice is more valuable is
the choice you will make
MJR_: in
that specific example (screwing guy who
tries
to offer unfair deal)>(sum of money gained from unfair deal)
MJR_: truffles:
that misses
the point,
there is no bad and good,
there is only perceived value
mircea_popescu: people don't care WHAT
the punishment is.
the only
thing
that makes any difference is
that
there's SOME punishment.
MJR_: i
think
the opposite may be
true...we all do math subconsciously
mircea_popescu: this coming from
the other end, ie,
the deterrence effect of criminal punishment.
mircea_popescu: it's quite well established
that people don't do math.
MJR_: truffles: point is just incentives can be used
to create fair systems if you account for what variables people are weighing
MJR_: personally...i never get
their names
MJR_: no such
thing as a free lunch...and morals have a dollar value
MJR_: meaning it isn't worth it at
the prices
they assume
they would get
MJR_: it should be free money in
their eyes...except it isn't...social stigma, laws, etc all change
the value proposition
mircea_popescu: those who have
that perception corrected for
them always do.
MJR_: for example...almost any woman could prostitute...why don't
they all do it (and not just in a metaphorical sense)?
mircea_popescu: child rape is probably perfectly rational from
the rapist's perspective.
MJR_: i find it mind boggling
that people view
this as "irrational behavior" it is perfectly rational...if you broaden
the definition of "value"
MJR_: basically,
the offerer can view part of his offer as accrued honor or fairness...which is worth something,
the decider can view his role as a fighter of injustice as a value, and it is rare
to find a society where an 80/20 split is accepted
MJR_: and
they have done empirical studies
to
test what
this means
MJR_: but
they have others
that ask about multi-rounds
MJR_: that specific experiment is limited
to one round
MJR_: they
talk about
that later on
mircea_popescu: but it should be he explaining his project rather
than me possibly arguing with a strawman
MJR_: relates
to my favorite economic
thought experiment
MJR_: you don't account for all
the incentives on both sides of
the equation...hence
trolling
MJR_: which i am all for...but i
think i figured out
the problem
MJR_: yeah, i appreciate it from a
theoretical perspective
MJR_: but people with a
ton of money will always have an advantage over people without
MJR_: i suppose if someone has money and feels like fucking over other people
then it is fine
MJR_: and bitbet is
the best so far
MJR_: but i
think you still have
to
trust
the guy running
the exchange
mircea_popescu: tbh i'm kinda surprised nobody has
taken me on
that bet.
MJR_: did you see roger ver's received extortion
threat?
MJR_: yeah...i
think OVH should be responsible
mircea_popescu: this is your friendly warning, if you're using
them move