log☇︎
870100+ entries in 0.594s
jurov: he has no time for passthrough, but mining bond is okay?
ozbot: [Closed] G.MPOE Pass Through
gecko_x2: who the fuck comes up with these names
gecko_x2: sideburn runs minerasic and cointerra mines terrcoin right? And the Coinlab and Labcoin are rivals because one produces HashFast and the Other run FastHash?
assbot: Last trade for DMS.SELLING on BTCTC was at 0.024 BTC [+]
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | None based on data since last change | 53353424.8615 based on data for last three days
optimator: lavabit.com - a footnote in the history of a declining civilization... I feel for the founders and the struggles they must be now going through
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's all for today. take it easy all.
mircea_popescu: would have provided immunity in that case, basically.
dexX7: what about tails?
mircea_popescu: people with the unmitigated audacity to discuss "misinformation". heh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in all the aggitation about tor im surprised nobody mentioned tails.
mircea_popescu: no, actually, they're distinct. brain is the soft matter inside. will is the hard bony structures keeping the world away from it.
mircea_popescu: they didn't make it to 53.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that nonsense nearly cost him his life. the entire testament of lenin affair was barely - and unlikely - averted by the actual people witgh brains.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern figureheads have impeccable manners, but none have taken an agrarian shithole from plow to nuke in a few decades.
mircea_popescu: herefore, to think it over whether you are prepared to withdraw what you have said and to make your apologies, or whether you prefer that relations between us should be broken off.[1]
mircea_popescu: You have been so rude as to summon my wife to the telephone and use bad language. Although she had told you that she was prepared to forget this, the fact nevertheless became known through her to Zinoviev and Kamenev. I have no intention of forgetting so easily what has been done against me, and it goes without saying that what has been done against my wife I consider having been done against me as well. I ask you, t
asciilifeform: after that it was just a body.
mircea_popescu: but that'd sem different.
mircea_popescu: at most it can turn into a shambling abomination that screeches "braaainnzzz"
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see this.
asciilifeform: actually a bureaucracy is rather like an organism, in that it can in fact be equipped with a brain.
asciilifeform: if the fellow making 'the offer that can't be refused' had any brains, he'd write the script for Gavin, rather than letting him mouth off ad lib.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin has the fastidious bureaucrats of the new soviets running in the dusts of hillbilly country trying to get entry-level judges to pat them on the head.
mircea_popescu: they got a lot less bang for the same buck here.
mircea_popescu: my point is however, that the same exact push keeled over one of the two.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it remains to be seen whether the userbase can be hijacked along with the 'official' project source.
optimator: and gavin + w/e tla agency is why litecoin still has a chance
ozbot: And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked pe Trilema - Un blog
optimator: wut? someone turned gavin? i thought he was married?
Kleeck_: I'd love to hang out longer and chat but I have to be off, gents. This is a good convo! Inform yourselves!!
mircea_popescu: one barely noticed, tyhe other died.
asciilifeform: if the pwners of TOR were ready to ditch the deniability of their operation, they could have fed the same exploit to every chump connected to every exit node.
mircea_popescu: compare the gestapo's action in btc (the turning of gavin) with the gestapo's exact same action in tor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform irrespective of the hiow, we're discussing the what.
Kleeck_: Yes. The actual exploit is known and documented AND mozilla is looking into it!
asciilifeform: Kleeck_: that was the payload. nothing to do with the actual compromise
optimator: binary words are usually too strong unless you are dealing with discrete mathematics
asciilifeform: the gestapo probably got the login creds from a stoolie
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nothing happened that would have required pwning the network. What we got was a perfectly-ordinary server compromise.
Kleeck_: Sure, you can conspiracy theory a lot of scary scenarios, but as we understand TOR it is a very well thought out network. It's the methods of connectivity that are vulnerable, and a few other points of injection/observation, that don't involve the TOR network at all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing may be too strong a word.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are quite a few serious problems with TOR, possibly including most of the nodes being NSA-owned. But last week's events had nothing to do with this.
Kleeck_: No, no, no... There is some redeemable value in using Mozilla over TOR... You have your analysis backwards...
mircea_popescu: you may have a point arguing there may be some redeemable value in onion routing.
Kleeck_: TOR has not been raped to hell. /sigh... So much misunderstanding...
mircea_popescu: is somehow to be taken seriously.
optimator: Menoetius: i was suggesting the honey pot in two ways. 1) get neferious person to give you btc, then analyze the address it came from; and 2) tor attack via something like - www.mit.edu/~ecprice/papers/tor.pdf
mircea_popescu: you're here arguing that a laughable piece of schewizer which has in fact been raped to all hell multiple times,
Kleeck_: This is why the BTC community needs informed on crypto.
Kleeck_: TOR is much more secure than that...
mircea_popescu: there was also the french team that infiltrated most of ithe network.
mircea_popescu: Kleeck_ that's nonsense. Egerstad for instance gathered a ton of people's pws.
Kleeck_: I have a coworker that has also thought that BTC could be calculated rainbow tables.
asciilifeform: and BTC doesn't use them.
asciilifeform: there are mathematical methods of carrying on a blockchain-like affair without keeping a trawlable ledger of every transaction.
Menoetius: way to much plausible deniability for an effective honeypot
Menoetius: how would that work then ?
Menoetius: i was question the fact anyone has even suggested btc was a honeypot
Kleeck_: oh god, <asciilifeform>, I never thought people would not understand how end-to-end would protect you from that...
Menoetius: "he 'honeypot-by-design' hypothesis is considerably stronger for TOR than for Bitcoin."
Kleeck_: I feel that if people understood crypto better we would understand the security that TOR brings, and the possible exploits and various points of entry.
asciilifeform: like, how exactly is 'end to end encryption' supposed to save you if the enemy controls one of the endpoints
asciilifeform: quite a few people need to go back and learn the basics of crypto before they try to understand a widget like TOR
Menoetius: im confused what your even talkign about optimator
optimator: Menoetius: it's the combination of the exit node + attack vectors
Kleeck_: I haven't come across a technical artical outlining documented TOR vulns.
mircea_popescu: Kleeck_ the vulnerabilities are well documented tho.
Kleeck_: Anyways... How about that Snowden character?
mircea_popescu: dexX7 you mean onion is the protocol ?
Menoetius: i could of told you that
Menoetius: tell me somoene sent me btc then i sent you btc
Menoetius: and that does what optimator ?
Kleeck_: lol. - You realize how TOR works right? End-to-end encryption from node-to-node all the way to the exit. Tracking output from the exit node does little to no good unless you are tracking a lot of other data.
dexX7: tor is the underlying protocol and freedom host was a service using/on tor - you can remove the host, but that doesn't change anything about tor itself
optimator: pay me - i then trace the shit out of the btc address you pay from
optimator: "someone has a honeypot theory for btc" - I have a tor exist node available for sniffing injecting - .5 btc - wanna pay?
Kleeck_: Go on. What exactly are we talking about?
mircea_popescu: Kleeck_ not so much of a theory. it's a project run by the usg to give its various enemies trouble.
Kleeck_: What is this "honey pot theory" for TOR?
mircea_popescu: suppose instead of trying to get me to argue your points you come up with an actual support for the analogy
Kleeck_: someone has a honeypot theory for TOR? I'd like to hear more.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't know where to begin.
Menoetius: how would that even work
Menoetius: someone has a honeypot theory for btc ?
dexX7: why is that, mp?
dexX7: well yea, but that's a different topic
mircea_popescu: dexX7 that analogy is very inept.
asciilifeform: dexX7: the 'honeypot-by-design' hypothesis is considerably stronger for TOR than for Bitcoin.
Kleeck_: that's the buzz, dexX7.
dexX7: do people really think "tor is down"? lol
mircea_popescu: <Menoetius> only reason anyone runs them <<< word.
Kleeck_: People are confused about what "TOR IS DOWN!" means. There was a dude in Ireland and a couple other exit nodes, takesn down. This was done through a vulnerability in a mozilla firefox build from nov. 2012. TOR is not down. Just to be clear.
Menoetius: i was just putting it in simple terms ;D
asciilifeform: Menoetius: sniffing is only half the fun
Menoetius: only reason anyone runs them
Menoetius: all tor nodes are sniffed
optimator: well since security is added on top of the transport layer - it means that everyone needs to be an expert
asciilifeform: has anybody considered how easy it is to run arbitrarily many doctored TOR exit nodes?