861500+ entries in 0.617s
Anduck: but
the bet addresses performance only, not chip amount
Anduck: bitfurystrikesback.com product description of
the 400gh unit:
fractal: Anduck:
the bet specifically mentions
the 400Gh unit.
Anduck: they didnt define chips or hardware in
the bet
Anduck: you can't
talk about 1 unit
to be
that since
there was a different unit/kit available
too
fractal: Anduck: No, performance of
the UNIT as defined in
the bet is 365Gh
Anduck: fractal: and
that changed
to more hardware, performance of
the unit is still kept as promised
Anduck: if you get an option
to buy something more, it's a different order
fractal: ok, i'll remove
the chip count from
the description... and add 1-raspberry pi
Anduck: but
too bad 400 gigahash of GPU's would draw more
than >400W so
the performance requirement wouldnt be met
tyrion70: why would
the bet be a no if you had
to pay 30$ more?
fractal: And
the performance of
the UNIT was not 400Gh
Anduck: because
the bet doesn't address
the unit hardware, only
the unit performance!!!
kakobrekla: interestingly enough,
the bet doesnt even mention asic chips.
fractal: So what is
that its not fair
to NO betters who based
their bets on
the definition of a UNIT as advertsied at
the
time of writing
the bet.
Anduck: it
totally changed, so what?
tyrion70: you just said, if you had
to pay more it was a no right?
Anduck: fractal:
thats
the definition yes and it chanegd
fractal: Anduck:
thats not what
the bet says
Anduck: tyrion70:
there's only performance requirement for
the kit. 400gh kit must do 400gh at <400W
fractal: Anduck: But
the definition of a unit , as advertised by bsfb.com, was "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips " -- and it is not 400Gh
Anduck: but he gets what he paid for, performance wise, right?
the bet was only about performance, not about
the hardware of
the unit
tyrion70: hence
they are both valid or invalid..
tyrion70: and both chipcount and dollars are not in
the bet description..
Anduck: the unit just includes more chips
than what was promised
tyrion70: what I mean
to say is
that you look at it from a dollar perspective..
Anduck: customer pays 15000 usd for
the 400ghash unit and gets 400 ghash unit for
that 15000 usd
fractal: Anduck: But
they didn't get a 400Gh unit.
they got a 365Gh unit.
Anduck: but
the customer orders 400ghash unit, gets
the 400ghash unit, whats
the missed performance
then?
Anduck: tyrion70: why are you adding
this money variable here since it's
totally irrelevant
fractal: In my view as well, getting more hardware is
the same as if
the manufacturer missed performance, let
them keep
the 365Gh UNIT, and offered a $ refund.
Anduck: that someone
think unit is strictly 256 chips as
they said?
tyrion70: well why would it be a no if
they asked for 100$?
Anduck: the performance of
the kit is as promised
tyrion70: but
that $ is not in
the bet..
Anduck: if i had
to pay more, it would definately be a no
tyrion70: so you added a variable
to
the bet..
tyrion70: would you still
think its a yes anduck?
Anduck: unit refers
to
the 400gh kit, right
tyrion70: if you would have had
to pay more for
this board...
fractal: Anduck: don't you
think if NO bettors bet based on one definition of UNIT, and
then
the definition of a UNIT changed,
then it's disingenuous
to people who bet no?
tyrion70: it's a silent dollar but its
there..
Anduck: people didn't need
to pay for
the hardware change of
the unit
Anduck: tyrion70: i remember
the conclusion
Anduck: tyrion70: yeah, unit==kit==256 chips but it got changed
to ~300 chips. but it maintained
the promised performance
tyrion70: yes but you only remember half of what I said
there apparently anduck..
fractal: OK, and a 400Gh unit, according
to
the Genesisbloack, and MXRider is defined at 1 M-board and 16 H-cards
Anduck: we already
talked about
this earlier
Anduck: the unit is
the same
thing as kit.
the bet says "25 gh and 400gh unit" and bitfurystrikesback sells 25gh kit and 400gh kit so you can pretty much say
those are
the same
fractal: Anduck: If
they never shipped a 'UNIT'
then I guess
the bet is invalid, since
they only shipped 'KITS'?
tyrion70: and now
they changed it
to ~300 chips..
fractal: Anduck: any rational person would assume
the 400Gh unit
to be a KIT as defined on
the BFSB.com website.
tyrion70: yes so one could argue
that a unit == kit ==256 chips..
Anduck: since
there's no such
thing as unit defined.. but
the kit is defined at bfsb.com
fractal: Performance is only 1 aspect of
the bet --
there are many conditions. 1) it has
to ship by sept 1 - yes 2) 5 people have
to post it on forums - yes 3)
the 400Gh 'UNIT' as defined at
the
time of writing should hash at 400Gh. - no.
Anduck: and it's
the logical way.
the other way would be
to
think
that 1 unit is 1 full m-board. but
thats not how it's defined
Anduck: the unit must mean
the kit since
thats what's defined
tyrion70: and by changing
the definition of a kit
they changed
the perspective..
Anduck: but
the PERFORMANCE is still
the same
Anduck: when
the bet
talks about unit, it means
the kit
tyrion70: and
they changed
the kit correct?
Anduck: tyrion70: unit is
the kit. we already
talked about
this. it's
the only way
to understand it as
thats
the only
thing defined
Anduck: 1 m-board with 256 chips does
that.
tyrion70: and "a unit" changed during
the course of
the bet correct anduck?
fractal: Anduck:
the 400GH 'UNIT' does infact only hash at 365-380Gh.
tyrion70: the bet was
talking about "a unit"...
Anduck: the 25gh and 400gh units performance. both units got chips added but
the performance promise is met
tyrion70: Bets can indeed be cancelled, but only if BitBet judges
that material changes make
the bet meaningless.
tyrion70: it changed.. so it invalidates
the bet..
Anduck: but
the performance did not
mircea_popescu: i wonder if
this discussion has hashed worth a block by now.
fractal: Anduck: BUT
the website says
that KIT is "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips "
Anduck: the kit is same
thing is a unit - as we
talked earlier
Anduck: no,
they're KITS
that are built from boards and cards
Anduck: tyrion70: can you also read
that a unit is 1 m-board and 1 h-board?
fractal: Anduck: any rational person would come
to
that conclusion.
Anduck: what definition is
that??
Anduck: units
that are same as kits as we
talked earlier
Anduck: and
those formed in as units
tyrion70: of KnC would ship
two boxes for a jupiter..
Anduck: what
the site says about
the performance:
fractal: Anduck:
tyrion70 is explaining exactly why people can
technically read
the bet different
to others.... you have
to at least realize
this
tyrion70: then
the bet would always be yes..........
Anduck: tyrion70: so
there's no info about what hardware
the unit has?
though it's not important, only
the hashrate and efficiency is
tyrion70: then at
the site one would see
that a kit containts 1 m board and 16 h boards..
tyrion70: anduck, yes which would mean
that one would have
to visit
their site in order
to see what a "unit" is..
Anduck: i am
trying
to make
the bet
to resolve correctly
Anduck: tyrion70: when
the bet
talks about unit (25gh and 400gh) it means
the kits you can buy from shop (25gh and 400gh), isn't
that very clear?
fractal: Anduck:
the post you're using
to prove your point disagrees with you. He says "Some info and pictures of my units: 400GH unit and 25GH unit."
tyrion70: and
to answer
that
there is not enough info in
the bet..