841700+ entries in 0.499s
kleeck_: That would be
the difference between
the current scenario and
the CPU miners scenario. I don't
think
they really had a place
to buy coins.
Jere_Jones: Buying and holding
the btc would be more profitable.
Jere_Jones: Is it a profit if you paid for your gear in btc and never make
that btc back? Even if
the btc you earn is worth more $
than
the btc you spent?
kleeck_: Then, all of
the sudden it was.
Then it was worth much, much more.
kleeck_: I know people who were mining at a loss back at
the start. BTC wasn't worth
the electricity and hardware.
kleeck_: Jere_Jones, as per my CPU mining scenario, we can't really know
that. You are correct
that under current ROI calculations it is not profitable. However, if Bitcoin rises appropriately
those individuals could see excellent return on
their mining investment.
Jere_Jones: Thus
they are a) delusional, b) stupid, or c) have other motives.
kleeck_: shoo gecko_gs2,
the grownups are
talking.
Jere_Jones: I
think jurov has a very significant point
that people starting
to mine now can't claim profit as a motive because
they will never make a profit.
gecko_gs2: Let's just all agree
that we gonna be rich
kleeck_: That is absolutely profitable. Not just
to you.
Jere_Jones: Concrete example: If I bought a batch 2 avalon for 80-ish btc.
They have made back
that 80-ish btc.
They continue
to make more $
than
they cost in electricity.
That,
to me, is profitable.
kleeck_: Oh come on. Profit is clear: a financial gain, esp.
the difference between
the amount earned and
the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.
jurov: it's hard
to discuss when we have different definitions of profit. For me, profit is computed considering *whole* investment.
kleeck_: (Their investment was pretty small compared
to modern asics, also.
To be fair.)
kleeck_: Oh wait. No
they aren't...
kleeck_: My friends who went out and bought multicore processors for
their mining rigs are really kicking
themselves for mining at a loss
those years ago.
Jere_Jones: Profit *is* my motivation
to mine. Except my usb block eruptor. I'll probably keep
that guy going for ever... just 'cause. :)
jurov: anyway, what i'm up
to is: you compared profit motives of individuals vs. govt ... but
there is no such
thing with mining
Jere_Jones: ^ Correction: I would say
that. You may or may not say
that. :)
Jere_Jones: You could probably say
that no machine purchased in
the last month will ever be profitable (in BTC).
Jere_Jones: In
the mining space, I'd say
that a year ago is old school. When I say "new", I mean
that you haven't purchased anything and are looking
to start.
Jere_Jones: *New* miners who are
talking about profit are self-delusional. I agree.
jurov: you see. so
the profit motive just is not
there and miners who are
talking about profit are under self-delusion.
Jere_Jones: But, also,
there are no asics you could have preordered a year ago where you just got it.
Jere_Jones: I don't know of a single asic where
that would be profitable
jurov: let's have concrete example: say you borrowed $$$ a year ago and put
them into asic preorder
that was recently delivered
jurov: omg all
that you're saying is sooo vague...
Jere_Jones: The problem is getting into mining now is not, according
to my maths, not going
to be profitable.
Jere_Jones: I am profitable every day in BTC and $ with my mining. I expect
that many people are. I'm not special.
Jere_Jones: I, currently, would be poorer if I
turned
them off.
Jere_Jones: Profit means I get more out
than I put in, right?
Jere_Jones: I have already made back
the purchase price and
the machines currently pay for
their electricity.
jurov: Jere_Jones so you
think you profit or you actually did
the math for your machines?
Jere_Jones: Mining
to a government will be about control and power. Profit is almost a non-concern.
Jere_Jones: But
the moment I
think mining is no longer profitable, I
turn my machines off. Because mining,
to me, is about
the money. Mining
to some people is about "securing
the network", and
that's ok.
jurov: actually i
think chinese govt (or Party-affiliated entrepreneurs) can buy stuff from friedcat at manufacture price, won't have
to pay market rates for electricity, etc.. and
thus would be more profitable
jurov: orly, how many private miners do actually profit
today?
Jere_Jones: If private individuals were mining, profit is important. A government doesn't have
that restriction.
Jere_Jones: I would argue
that it does make a difference.
jurov: what's worse,
that iDiff-Dec has
to be priced around 0.3 BTC (difficulty 3e9)
jurov: anyway,
that is of no concern
to me who is mining
ozbot: Estimate of ASIC pre-orders (6,000
to 8,000
TH/s by end of 2013)
Jere_Jones: There is a significant difference between
the Chinese people getting into
the mining game and
the Chinese government getting into
the mining game.
The US people have been mining for years yet
that does not mean
the US government has ever set up a mining operation.
The evidence would have
to show governmental entities are responsible for at least some mining.
jurov: do you
think
that's all just kncminer?
Sandu: is
the dif spike evidence in itself?
jurov: Sandu maybe evidence wrt china involvement is
there in plain sight?
Sandu: why MP is not sharing
the evidence?
ozbot: Things
that matter
these days ;
things
that don’t matter
these days. pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mirce
Sandu: is
there any proof of US/China mining?
dexX7: where are btc cfds
traded?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC
to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 203.00000, Best ask: 203.10999, Bid-ask spread: 0.10999, Last
trade: 203.11000, 24 hour volume: 32421.85068733, 24 hour low: 187.79998, 24 hour high: 205.50000, 24 hour vwap: 196.27046
taub: i seriously had buy orders at
the lows which i pulled last second
taub: its going
to a milllion!!!
phungus: < mircea_popescu> phungus>
the original "Behind
the Back Door" < you mean green door ? < No, I mean "Behind
The Back Door". It was made in
the 80's. HAWT
mircea_popescu: The cash shipment was headed for a $6 million dollar Bel Air home (7400-square-feet with five bedrooms and eight bathrooms) owned by Shapiro’s in-laws. Pictured at left, Shapiro declined
to answer
TSG questions about
the package sent
to him by Sadler. Until about a month again, Shapiro worked for
the National Football League as an ad operations manager in
the NFL’s Culver City office.
Kleeck_: How many illicit market places will pop up now? Let's get a bitbet for
that set up. I'm guess no less
than
three new ones.
Kleeck_: says - "don't do
the crime if you can't do
the
time.... you rat..."
Kleeck_: LOL. ANd
the one comment: Brad Dodge
Kleeck_: He wants
to be known as Stephanie Saddler now.
Kleeck_: Referring
to “unusual circumstances,” Woods noted
that “through reasons unrelated
to” Sadler, his cooperation “abruptly came
to an end
this morning.” Sadler’s lawyer
told
Tsuchida
that her client was in “constant communication with
the government.”
ozbot: BitBet - Litecoin
to fall below .01 BTC before 2014
Kleeck_: Oh, God. Not
the Captain America shirt!
ozbot: Top Silk Road Drug Dealer Was Flipped By Feds |
The Smoking Gun
Bunnyh: so it's actually intended by
the bet creator
that nobody can bet on it after oct 13th ? even
though
the bet might be unresolved until
the end of
the year
mircea_popescu: Bunnyh so
that bet was just created with a very early close date for some reason
Bunnyh: ok. maybe i should use
the bet comment field for asking
these
things instead, just
trying
to understand bitbet. i didn't even bet on
that
mircea_popescu: Bunnyh possibly in part because nobody cared enough
to ask so far
ozbot: BitBet - bitstampUSD will
trade at a higher price
than mtgoxUSD in 2013
bloctoc: I
think air gapping medical records is illegal since HIPAA
mircea_popescu: “My medical practice has gone off line. Effective yesterday,
the computers
that contain patient’s account information including billing diagnosis, have been completely de-linked from
the internet.
Therefore, your health information is completely secure. Accounting will be done in house with Quickbooks on a PC
that is not connected
to
the internet."
mircea_popescu: in fact,
the radiation
the us has been and will be eating from fukushima is significantly over
the radiation japan ate in ww2.
KRS1: we probably shouldn't have nuked
them.
mircea_popescu: "Of
the estimated 13 million unmarried people in Japan who currently live with
their parents, around
three million are over
the age of 35."
ozbot: Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex? | World news |
The Observer
Jere_Jones: You'd need a
team of "curators".
There are about 10 new posts a second.
mircea_popescu: by
taking out
the 99% crap idiots barf into it and
taking out
the gems basically.
mircea_popescu: you know, i was bitching years ago about yahoo selling email content
to spammers, ppl were ono not possible.
ozbot: Experian Sold Consumer Data
to ID
Theft Service — Krebs on Security
bloctoc: nice article about experian selling full consumer profiles
to a bonafide identity
thievery service.
mircea_popescu: phungus>
the original "Behind
the Back Door" < you mean green door ?
mircea_popescu: <dub> im sure google is happy
to "protect" any content
they can <<
Jere_Jones: I wonder if
there would be a market for a bitcointalk archive...
Diablo-D3: hes now claiming I changed
the DMC final notice in
the past day or so
Diablo-D3: its all in pm, although hes
trying
to drag yochdog and ukyo into it