836900+ entries in 0.647s
nubbins`: and you arrive at
the conclusion
that art is declared by edict from god
nubbins`: well, obviously person Z (X and Y's superior) should be
the REAL person
to ask, right?
nubbins`: suppose person X says "this sculpture i've commissioned is art" and person Y says "nay, you are my subject, and i declare it
to be not-art"
nubbins`: your explanation requires
that some higher power declares X
to be art and Y
to be not-art
mircea_popescu: you might as well offer an explanation of art for spherical chickens
that live in vacuums.
mircea_popescu: incidentally,
the miscasting as art as "that which yields emotional response" is roughly
the reason
trolling has become such a big deal culturally.
nubbins`: i'm merely offering
the simplest explanation for
the fact
that
there are so many
things which some people call art and other people don't
mircea_popescu: you might as well propose
the cancer walk in
the front door one day and begin jacking off.
nubbins`: and
there are
those who would argue
that such a kidnapping is "performance art"
mircea_popescu: more's
the point : your example is counterfactual. i would never
talk
to some anodyne serf woman,
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you could slap her, or kidnap her
to
the same strong emotional response
nubbins`: which in
turn implies
that she
nubbins`: but
the very fact
that she weeps implies
that she is having a strong emotional response
to it
nubbins`: the natural extrapolation of your argument is
that you can walk up
to a woman weeping at
the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her
that what she has observed is, in fact, not art
nubbins`: due
to quantum physics gibberish,
the cat is neither dead nor alive until observed
dexX7: fringe is a us
tv series
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i dunno what cats have
to do with
this. is it an internet
thing ?
mircea_popescu: one can't
turn arround and expect all situations have equally low bars
nubbins`: but
the difference here is
that all can agree on whether or not a cat is dead
mircea_popescu: nah, see,
the equivocation at work here is
that
the requirements for being an observer in
the foresrt with a falling
tree are very low
nubbins`: and
that's fair in
the sense
that art is some sort of schrodinger's cat
type
thing
nubbins`: but
that's just another way of questioning whether an event happens if
there is no observer
nubbins`: you
touched on
this when you said it was inert
nubbins`: just as
the validity of what my opinion of art is can be debated
mircea_popescu: this may be
the best stating of
the naive nominalism discussed above.
nubbins`: the validity of
their observations can certainly be debated
nubbins`: an observer needs no qualifications beyond
the ability
to observe
mircea_popescu: there are qualifications needed
to be an observer. you don't become an observer of
the battle of
thermopylae just by stating yourself as an observer
nubbins`: everything is irrelevant but
the opinion of
the observer
mircea_popescu: the eiffel
tower on yoru commode is not a piece of eiffel
towers.
nubbins`: it's not
THE art on my walls, it's A piece of art
nubbins`: well, you're
the one bringing definite articles into play
mircea_popescu: it's not germane
to call it "the eiffel
tower" in conversation.
mircea_popescu: it'd be "the eiffel
tower of my commode", but only inasmuch as you are concerned.
mircea_popescu: for
that matter, you may perhaps in
time come
to own a miniature of
the eiffel
tower, which you may emplace on your commode,
mircea_popescu: why do you expect solipsism
to be considered by others ?
mircea_popescu: "unequivocally and inarguably a work of art" only in
the republic of one constructed by your own living room, of which you are president.
nubbins`: and yet,
there it sits on my wall
nubbins`: to propose
that i hold any position relative
to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense
nubbins`: no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me
to ever find out who made it or
to contact
them in any way
nubbins`: about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on
the back side of it. it's currently gracing
the wall of my living room.
nubbins`: and i find such a stance so bizarre
that i'm not even sure where
to begin picking it apart
nubbins`: i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying
too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating
that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over
the artist decrees it
to be so
mircea_popescu: but
there's a difference between calling a dude a nigger for convenience, as
the shortest word available,
nubbins`: if
the random bozo creates something
that i like, what else would i call him?
nubbins`: and
thus, random bozos are "artists"?
mircea_popescu: that aside,
there aren't really enough points given explicitly
to make much of a call.
mircea_popescu: (naive nominalism is
the view
that convention enacts existence, and
thus forumers are "ceo"s and
their harebrained schemes "companies")
mircea_popescu: ah. well i wouldn't know "your" system. what you've written so far is coherent with naive nominalism, ie
the ideology of all youths. occam requires it be described as such.
nubbins`: you can't claim
to know a man's mind and not expect him
to ask you
to elaborate
nubbins`: nope,
that was directed
towards you
nubbins`: i'm curious
to know what your description of my system would be
jurov: the correct one, and
the others are degenerate *rolls eyes*
ozbot: By special request,
the Imperial March on Kazoo - YouTube
nubbins`: anyway, certainly one of
the more entertaining reads (article + comments) so far
nubbins`: i'm still
trying
to figure out if i should determine
the nature of your point or
the nature of your system first!
mircea_popescu: in all situations where a set of representations appears equivalent but one excludes all others,
that's also
the correct one, and
the others are degenerate.
mircea_popescu: you know
this because i can enact my point in your system, but you can't enact your point in mine.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: just finished; we're *all* misrepresenting
the situation.
the artists,
the art dealers,
the museum-going public, and every single person who commented on
that post, yourself included.
this is why "what is art" is an interesting
topic for discussion; everyone colors it with
their own experience.
pankkake: also stuff has a
tendency
to disappear at
the border
pankkake: that's why I don't like
to order stuff outside of
the EU :/
nubbins`: i sold some poor EU guy a rare casascius coin a while back. he insisted on insuring it for its full value, and was very sad when he had
to pay hundreds of dollars before
they released his package
jurov: good. cuz americans like, in
their blessed innocece,
to declare $$$$ value and
then it's headache
nubbins`: the postal clerk filled out all
the customs forms for me. pretty sure
they're all marked as "t-shirt", gift, no cash value
jurov: nubbins`: did you declare sufficiently high value for our watchful customs
to intercept it and demand ransom?
ozbot: ASICMINER: Entering
the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
Pantoo: i was looking
to see if he had said anything else about
the SEC and noticed he made
that update earlier. wonder how long
till others notice
nubbins`: never gonna get filled,
that's just
there
to give people confidence
that
the ass isn't gonna fall out of it
kakobrekla: stamp is laging, not only
teh cans and strings but
teh price
too
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nubbins`: no more so
than
the average sensible human
nubbins`: none of
this dead-tree bullshit ;)
nubbins`: received a large order of paper on friday, can't wait
to start
testing it out
kakobrekla: benkay yeah ill get one or
two and
then later figure out what
to do with
them
nubbins`: i'm much more interested in flatstock
than fabric
these days
benkay: i'm still mulling over how
to integrate cardanos into my existing key mgmt scheme
kakobrekla: nubbins` yeah
that one, somalia it was i reckon
nubbins`: ah! you must be one of
the slovenia/slovakia packages i'm guessing?
nubbins`: printed
them, yes. didn't design
the image
benkay: nubbs how do you obtain food credits outside of IT
these days?
truffles: well im not smart enough for
the nerd
title otherwise i see no probs with it, but ofc some ppl are sensitive about
this stuff
truffles: n word not on
the same scale imo
truffles: well some ppl like showing off
their knowledge like on "king of
the nerds"
tv show
truffles: is nerd a negative word
to nerds ?
truffles: oh wait nerds can has gf
too nm