log☇︎
82500+ entries in 0.624s
asciilifeform: (a la fidonet)
Framedragger: could be a set of particular (and particular only) peers. in any case, there must be a shared understanding among the users/elite as to how to proceed in face of naming conflicts.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567838 << in point of fact we don't must use it, i've been happy with local name table for what, half a year ? not so much a matter of this as - it's there. might as well infect and "ruin" it for teh imperial idjits. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: the fact that my definitions of imperial terminology prevail over the empire's own definition has nothing to do with the fact that before such a prevailing can take place, those definitions must actually exist and be given.
asciilifeform: because such a net isn't worth using.
mircea_popescu: "trilema.com is 4.5.6.7 according to mp. if you believe mp - then there you go". that's a dns record.
trinque: mircea_popescu: no. once I know a key I can interact with deedbot if I can make it there over gossipd peerings
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "mostly" ie, "until mp requires a definition, then it all breaks down"
scriba: Logged on 2016-11-15: [18:34:31] <asciilifeform> when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: how about: make a proof of concept name system, use it instead of current dns root server set for now, later enable every gossipd user to run their own instance of name system if they prefer the fully-decentralized-dictionary path; the initial PoC will still have been useful.
mircea_popescu: if there's nowhere to lookup the "(" how will you have a lisp ? because "we all know" ? and if we don't know how do we find out ?
asciilifeform: then refine specifically what means 'a lisp' here
trinque: I would expect that if I am on gossipnet and I want loper-os, I ask my friends if they have a key which they call loper-os
mircea_popescu: so how do you propose to have a lisp ?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: fact is, central table of anything at all, is a throne, i simply do not see the 'win' from retaining the throne.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i thought so too, but basically mircea_popescu's idea would dispatch of the whole 'dns zone' concept. there would be no 'domain' per se. dns clients could still query 'loper-os', but the server would be a simple table, with no understanding of zones or significance of "."
mircea_popescu: you can't have a system without a dictionary.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567823 << every system you ever use will have a dictionary ; and every system you ever used in the past had a dictionary. this is unavoidable. you prefer one over another, dictionaries, systems, that's your problem. but if you read the linked rfc - there's parts they get right, right before the parts they fuck up that i underlined in red. ☝︎
Framedragger: personally i don't see why there could not be a GNS which would be separate from commitments to specific transport standards. have a table, have a transport layer, swap the layer later. i may be naive in regards to the "swap" step, i guess... :/
Framedragger: i don't have a strong opinion, i wonder what mircea_popescu thinks. i guess the answer would also focus on the "while we still must use it" aspect
asciilifeform: central namespaces are a dumb idea. i regard it as my duty to put this on record.
Framedragger: trinque: right, this is cf. gossipd's "everyone has their own a la hosts file, and does with it what they like". is that what you meant?
Framedragger: trinque: i meant as a generic string - trying to avoid the term 'domain' as the latter is not accurate..
asciilifeform: Framedragger: worse than this, it is even difficult to quantity the cost of perpetuating the IDEA of a 'block cipher' as being A THING
asciilifeform: when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#440 << sure, i guess. (note though that this effort would get rid of dns server code, though. and it does not obstruct one from later patching dns client code / rewriting a much more simplistic name query client.)
asciilifeform: earlier this year, i wanted to fit symmetric cipher into trb, and get rid of 'blackholing' etc. but mircea_popescu correctly pointed out that it is the Wrong Thing to cement a pseudoscientific abortion like AES (or ANY OTHER known symmetric cipher!) into place
asciilifeform: (incidentally, if something runs ~solely~ on top of a system written in jwzc, it is to be counted as jwzc code, every line. just as every penny spent by an embezzler from his embezzled funds counts as mis-spent.)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: which is, i think, not a complete retreat, so to speak
Framedragger: asciilifeform: do note that mircea_popescu's idea of keeping dns is more akin to a general WoT-enforced hashtable, update-able via (in principle) gossipd-compatible pgprams, and (for the time being) transportable over dns/udp. the latter so that dns clients can make use of it.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: some months ago i restored a vintage keyboard, with capacitative matrix (contactless) which needed new controller and analogue calibration etc. it was interesting learning experience in that i never understood how ~motherfucking reliable~ an ordinary keyboard must be before it feels usable.
Framedragger: (in fairness, the html sometimes mangles two words together, omitting a space, or somesuch. not many words are lost. but still, shame.)
asciilifeform: worked for netscape ? partied with jwz ? sat on itu standards committee ? there is a pick at butugychag with yer name on it.
asciilifeform: (which is a shame, this is a great piece imho)
scriba: Logged on 2016-11-15: [17:08:07] <mircea_popescu> not, on the other hand, to deny that there in fact exists this subculture dedicated to the screenshot as quotation mechanism, or that tech support teams regularly see terrabytes of crap each month, clogging the tubes for no conceivable reason. it has to do with a failure of literacy, a certain laziness of the mind that thinks in symbols (which is
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#349 << ohmygerd how i hate this shit. it ends with "to quote text in screenshot of screenshot, i'll make a screenshot". tumblr at least retains/-ed the concept of a "quote as a block of text". wouldn't be surprised if not for long.
BingoBoingo: Such a valuable inequity.
pete_dushenski: "At Twitter, he didn't collect a salary or stock options last year and only received personal and residential security costs totaling $68,506." << dorsey's 2015 figures
mircea_popescu: maybe some of 'em want to go away for a weekend, you don't know till you ask amirite.
pete_dushenski: he was kicked out / sold out when twitter was nearing peak valuation then brought back to 'save' co. meanwhile he shoulda stayed on the beach sipping margaritas because he failed miserably to 'pull a steve'
mircea_popescu: lol chris rock dun give a shit, he's promoting some new movie and big titty tuesday
mircea_popescu: "It hurt me inside knowing somebody from outside our race is talking bad about us," said Rodriguez, carrying a sign reading, "Brown and Proud."
asciilifeform: (for non-u.s. folk: this is not a thing normally permitted)
mircea_popescu: i think some magic could be had where you put all the new items into a new table then merge the two tables where hashes don't match.
mircea_popescu: to get back to the pguctor feeding briefly - you mean "one at a time" as in insert into whatever values () as opposed to insert into whatever values (),(),() ?
asciilifeform: whole thing is a crock of shit, for quite fundamental reasons -- let teenage cocklets design infrastructure, it will look like www stack every time.
mircea_popescu: well, in fairness the back button thing is because browsers are shit more than anything. there's a thousand ways to break it, including by introducing an expiring page in the stack etc.
mircea_popescu: t to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant."
mircea_popescu: not, on the other hand, to deny that there in fact exists this subculture dedicated to the screenshot as quotation mechanism, or that tech support teams regularly see terrabytes of crap each month, clogging the tubes for no conceivable reason. it has to do with a failure of literacy, a certain laziness of the mind that thinks in symbols (which is what the screenshot is).as newman put it, "to see things as they are, to go righ
asciilifeform: promisetronic 'verifications' are an eternal plague among the stupid. consider even the timestamp in gpg (to make the phuctor sig from last night's qntra, i used ordinary gpg 1.4, with patch). what business does a userland proggy have asking for the wall clock time without permission? if i want it to have a time, i will pipe 'date' to it...
mircea_popescu: Framedragger re automation angle - i dunno, i suppose varying amounts of elbow grease could be employed, entirely as a mechanical gearbox, in lieu of actual automation. just it doesn't fit in my head - the same people who wouldn't read ten words would then go through the motions, orders of magnitude more complex, of making screenshots etc ?
mircea_popescu: but they concerned with the proposition of alf the bee-dog's bees, ie these things... they've a serious problem.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i don't think they wasted my time nor do i think myself the victim. fact is i can turn them into value if i so decide, much like the beekeeper can make candles and honeycomb if he wants. and if i don't want - i just don't make a fiverr account. not like they can do anything whatsoever, they can't even elect hillary.
Framedragger: i see what you mean. now it's a closed bubble/system for them, sort of...
mircea_popescu: the ancient cobbler apprentice who did a bad job had two out of band systems, his master's crop and his master's words, to shake him out of biological amoebasty.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the problem they face is that as they cannibalized language itself they're now stuck in a very lost world without any possibility of out of band
Framedragger: well, good for the skriptkiddies then. a spammy-scripty strategy is a strategy nonetheless.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i expect they have a fully scripted environment cobbled together out of visual basic, httpfox and what have you
asciilifeform: in all fairness, i will likely rewrite it again before 2 yrs . seems to have become a yearly chore.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform straight to http://trilema.com/2016/theyre-not-progressive-theyre-just-lazy-a-practical-exercise/
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the idea being that we're overflowing data to process, after your set ends up in spring jurov's goes in and may take a year+
mircea_popescu: except a) they didn't and b) we did and c) they published nothing and d) we published both ips and factors ?
asciilifeform: phuctor is a living illustration of the tradeoffs of 'muntzing'. it is ~100 % reliable, and (aside from the unicode turdolade) demonstrably bug-free. but this comes at a price.
asciilifeform: (they, as everyone probably already guessed, get db queried one-at-a-time. to do anything else would result in a 50x more complicated phuctor.)
Framedragger: aha, the way it'd work, it'd still scan only port 22 initially, because grabbing banners / doing stateful communication is much slower. doing the former is a matter of TCP SYN/ACK, with embedded 'cookies', no need for state
asciilifeform: as in, if it serves up http or https on any port, i want a snapshot
asciilifeform: Framedragger: jurov posted a quite working one earlier, i used it for the amd keys recently
Framedragger: jurov: i have a trivial python script based on your openpgp-generator to convert arbitrary numbers of e,N,comment into pgp if interested (but you prolly have something of the same - just in case)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you ever get a copy of jurov's keys though ?
mircea_popescu: there's worse fates than a 2year phuctor fuel supply. (i guess.)
asciilifeform: jurov: i can slip'em in after the current batch of Framedragger keys is digested, a few wks from now. otherwise - april or so.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 02:09 asciilifeform: 'The attacker just have to press and keep pressing the [Enter] key at the LUKS password prompt until a shell appears, which occurs after 70 seconds approx.'
asciilifeform: btw quite a few of those boxen you can log into, right ~now~
mircea_popescu: more a case of "locate the maniacs" than anything.
asciilifeform: this would be a slightly more interesting imho exercise if the popped boxes were not all routers/webcams/etc where no one hangs on shell
mircea_popescu: Framedragger 1. open cpanel session 2. generate ssh key 3. export it 4. import it into another. see a connect to b.
Framedragger: hm. worth a try for sure.
asciilifeform: i presently know of no system that ships with remote-login-with-key-auth enabled by default. does not mean that there isn't such a thing.
Framedragger: i mean in practical terms, of course, theoretically, but as in, would a canonical ssh agent eat it up
mircea_popescu: a key's a key, there's no "server key" as such.
asciilifeform: aite, somewhere, there could be a maniac who configured his box for ssh ~login~ , and with same key as some such in phuctor.
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that there was a hypothesis, but unable to find it in the logz
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/theyre-not-progressive-theyre-just-lazy-a-practical-exercise/ << Trilema - They're not progressive, they're just lazy - a practical exercise
BingoBoingo: Just like night train/thunderbird/et al. They are a societally necessary sort of thing.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Would not be surprised at all. These things find a way.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's so funny how much can change in a mere coupla decades. from clinton's "boy, i wish i could say the same" to obama's "i solemnly promise & swear trump won't be elected".
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, nigel farage is utterly furios that notwithstanding he's the only brit with a trump pass, nevertheless may & friends won't come kiss his pinky ring.
mircea_popescu: they're not dumb because the evil witch of the west tells them to, and when she dies they'll all wake up from dumb like from a spell.
asciilifeform: 'The attacker just have to press and keep pressing the [Enter] key at the LUKS password prompt until a shell appears, which occurs after 70 seconds approx.' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i even get hits from excite, but i figure that's gotta be a joke.
mod6: so the 'morse fist' was a guys ability to send error free and 'style' of the transmission of the message
asciilifeform: mod6: nah, they tended to use barbarisms where the man has a code in memory
mod6: <+asciilifeform> dunno re elsewhere, but in su army it was a mixed bag, co was expected to shoot radioman if the latter is at risk of capture (e.g., injured & down) << did the su radio guys have all the otp's for the day there with him or what not?
asciilifeform: dunno re elsewhere, but in su army it was a mixed bag, co was expected to shoot radioman if the latter is at risk of capture (e.g., injured & down)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> (in ww2, the worst marksman always got the flamethrower. worst job, shit's heavy, you gotta get close etc) << oh no doubt. that's a rough job. like having a damn bomb on your back. next as bad is probably the radio guy.
mircea_popescu: incidentally alf : why don't ANY of these fucking idiots doing "mass shootings" like EVER read a fucking training manual, figure out they're supposed to carry ft not ap small arms ?
mircea_popescu: i half expected it's a converted camping butane burner
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why, it's not really a very good gun ?
mod6: pete_dushenski: hey, glad you got a prize, I did like the yugo joke.
asciilifeform: it's a columbinator.