811900+ entries in 0.559s
pankkake: yeah,
that's should be my next project
pankkake: it's funny
that no matter how hard you
try
to make a bad coin, people go out
there
to "promote" it
pankkake: I aim
to sell Bernankoin
to
the USG!
pankkake: I would
think more like forbid "bad"
transactions
pankkake: perhaps at
the cost of some latency
pankkake: they have every incentive
to do so… but pools are also easy
to hide
pankkake: got a "coinchat is back" mail. I
thought
that was
TradeFortress'
thing?
nubbins`: world war 3 will be different, in
that it won't be called world war 3
ozbot: BitBet - BTC network difficulty
to
top 1B before 2014
ThickAsThieves: This is more of a haunting
than a poltergeist behavior which
tends
to be more violent. My wife and I have had many strange unexplained experiences happen also. I am no so keen on mediums
though.
There are only a few in
the world
that are actually any good at being specific or accurate.
nubbins`: brutally poor standard of journalism haunts st. john's news
team
bevardis1: Hey guys. I want
to buy some bitcoins. How fast is it possible
to do it with a reasonable price (not more
than 20% increase, hopefully <10%)? I have paypal, credit card, etc. I'm european. Looking for advice here, not offers :)
jurov: Please whitelist
this account for business use. I will follow up with a post from my main account,
ThickAsThieves.
jurov: Hello everyone,
this account will be used for Neo investor-related updates and communications going forward, rather
than
the
ThickAsThieves one.
jurov: Please note
that while Danny enjoys interacting with
the forum and answering questions when he can, he is still
the CEO of
the company, and
thus is quite busy most of
the
time.
gribble: There are currently 22017.358 bitcoins offered at or under 1250.0 USD, worth 20955828.2806 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 0.0979 seconds
benkay: next computer my company actually buys me is a well-designed
thing whose default ctags implementation doesn't recurse
benkay: next computer i get excited about comes from
the asciilifeform labs
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't mind a Macintosh SE/30 with less magic smoke
than
the last one produced.
benkay: but BingoBoingo wouldn't you like your platform
to support
true parallelized operation eh eh eh?
benkay: there are lisps for every platform
these days
benkay: it's
typically obvious after 2 weeks when
they can't.
benkay: "can you fp? okay. you've got 3 months
to demonstrate competence."
benkay: consider it a shit
test for dev ability
benkay: exercise for
the reader and all
that
benkay: probably never will be, relationship of comms overhead
to number of devs on
team being what it is.
benkay: panacea
to
the BigCorp software dev problem
benkay: all fp does is urge you at a language level
to do something sane with your state.
fiat500: benkay: yeah, not gonna dispute
this, i see it all
the
time, and not just with novices
benkay: fiat500: OOP leads
the programmer
to encapsulate state in
the most insane places possible.
fiat500: i dont
think i said you shouldnt be able
to... im saying you should
benkay: fiat500:
there are exceptions.
BingoBoingo: fiat500: Why shouldn't you be ale
to change
the system as it runs?
fiat500: benkay:
thats a great way
to solve some problems, not really great for stateful systems
BingoBoingo: Before
that
though I banged away in motorola 68k assembler on
the
TI-89 and mac
fiat500: BingoBoingo: i mean in
the sense
that many people who are using c++ don't really understand wtf is going on behind
the scenes
benkay: given
the same inputs you'd have a
tough
time convincing me
there's a good reason not
to...
BingoBoingo: Eh, C++ is what
the first programming classes I'd
taken were conducted in.
benkay: vs understanding
that functions
take input arguments and return values
fiat500: i
think
the most egregious example of
this is c++, not python
benkay: but
to really understand what's happening
they need
to understand
the class
that
they're subclassing, what
the hell subclassing is, how instances of classes get new-ed
the fuck up, all
this absurd cognitive overhead
benkay: the OOP dream of
the nineties is alive in Py-thon...Py-thon!
BingoBoingo: You know what language really makes sense.
TeX
benkay: when someone sits down
to hammer out some OOP,
they look at
the code surrounding what
they need
to write, and
they copy out stuff
that looks like what
they've seen and it just works.
benkay: well
to return
to
the
topic of my rant
fiat500: not saying its great, just a choice made by
the designers, i
think it adds a nice variety
to
the mix
fiat500: it switches
to a more optimal data structure when its size gets large enough
fiat500: NSDictionary in
the land of cocoa, changes its internal structure based on its contents
benkay: hopefully ones fundamental data structures aren't evolving
too quickly
fiat500: now
this external library of functions must become aware of
this change and handle it
benkay: in my world, functions
take arguments and return values.
fiat500: the problem arises where a newer, more efficient implementation is found at some point, and
the internal structure of
the string must change (consider it getting generalized
to a rope, as an extreme and ridiculous example)
benkay: i come at
this all from a weird non cs perspective, so i'm sure a lot of
the conclusions
that i've come
to are completely bogus.
fiat500: not
to defend django or python, but a split method is useful enough
that it should probably exist somewhere - where would you put it?
benkay: i'm fresh out of a code retreat with some humans who really grok oop and yet failed
to put
together class hierarchies
to implement
the game of life in 45 minutes.
benkay: how do I
teach someone what
the ever loving fuck is going on in a Django project?
benkay: but what about
the insane method inheritance?
benkay: i lean
towards
the monadic approach
these days.
fiat500: if you
think of objects as just structs with function pointers, its hard
to argue
that an object is an inappropriate way
to represent state in a stateful system
benkay: but all of
these layers of abstraction get in between problems and people who can fix
them.
benkay: problem is everyone wants
to make
tools
that make computing 'simpler' 'easier' 'more understandable'
benkay: ya well, brain surgery lasers are great in
the hands of brain surgeons
BingoBoingo: I don't
think .NET and OOP are equivalently problematic. OOP can be useful in cases. Somethings want
to be objects. I mean CLOS is a
thing.
The problem is what happens once you make an object.
benkay: of course
they have dev
teams > 10
fiat500: i
think my point is, while fb is rather large, has sw dev
teams > 10 members, and uses OOP for many
things,
they also use fp where it makes sense
benkay: the pathological case being
the .NET Mort.
benkay: first, OOP is designed
to get people hammering keyboards as quickly as possible, which is orthogonal
to
teaching humans how computers actually work.
benkay: there's a whole stack of shit
that bothers me about OOP
benkay: so you
tell me if
that's a mature dev environment.
benkay: ya and
their deploy strategy is also "compile php
to c and
torrent it around
the internal network"
fiat500: fb fits
that description, and fb is really good at using say - haskell - as
the right
tool for some of
their internal analytics
BingoBoingo: Well, generally generic BigCorp wants fungible workers, and
they generally use blub as a
tool
to keep workers fungible.
benkay: has mgmt
that
thinks
that sw dev
teams of greater
than 10 members are an acceptable idea.
fiat500: are we excluding
tech companies from
this?
benkay: sounds like you're assuming BigCorp can select even an approximately appropriate
tool for a job.
fiat500: in
the context of fp vs imperative
fiat500: my point was
that
the size of
the corporation (or really more generally, where a problem is being solved) does not have a bearing on
the
type of problem being solved
fiat500: hm, sorry, guess i was missing context
then
benkay: neither. i don't quite understand your comment about wheres and whys,
tho.
fiat500: which of my
two statements do you find issue with?
fiat500: i
think you are conflating
the 'where' with
the 'why'
fiat500: fp is not
the most elegant/efficient way
to express solutions
to every problem
benkay: in large corporations where
they hire labor.
benkay: once you get into
the class-based systems (which Python libraries inevitably drive you
to), Python is just Java lacking a few particular flakes of shit.
benkay: but i gather
that you don't actually need
to be scripting python, and
the cleaner
the break with whatever your past is (Java especially),
the easier of a
time you're going
to have wrapping your head around
the functional approach.