794400+ entries in 0.584s
benkay: scuse me - i made mistakes in
the pricing examples.
benkay: there were mistakes in
the pricing examples.
jurov: btw, part 8 futures is
there
too
truffles: lotta bitcoiners straddling
the fence, makes me doubt
their faith
mike_c: yes, it's not
that companies using
their bitcoins are doing something "wrong", just stupid.
ThickAsThieves: maybe
this could be
the first charge of
the Bitcoin Republik, we make a 100% Pure Bitcoin badge
KRS1: mice_c: Investment funds are requested using an IPO based on a business plan. If you never execute it and expecting your capital
to fund
the business,
thats a big problem.
mike_c: around we go. what is wrong with it is
that in a year
that company will be worth $200 and
the bitcoins it raised will be worth $2,000
KRS1: You have
to purchase at some point
though..time is money.
mircea_popescu: let
them either put
the fire out or else let
the fire run out and see what it's worth
mircea_popescu: KRS1
that you don't want
to buy a house on fire at
the list price.
KRS1: Its perfectly fine
to cash in btc for fiat at
the
time because $X dollar investment has been reached
to launch business operations.
ThickAsThieves: before i found bitcoin
that was
the plan a label called
Thick As
Thieves
KRS1: So if we all invest in a company
that needs $100 dollars, using bitcoin, as long as
the $100 dollar investment goal has been reached, what is wrong with executing
the rest of
the business operations?
mircea_popescu: if people were actually willing
to pay for music
this may be a brilliant idea.
mike_c: krs1, wait a year.
the clubhouse will have an enitrely different population.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves because
the club house is mostly populated by retards.
KRS1: Their wives are ready
to leave
them and even
the security guard at
their estate is giving
them better investment
tips.
ThickAsThieves: why arent more startups proclaiming
to be 100% bitcoin?
KRS1: At
the club house
they are getting laughed at by
their colleagues.
mike_c: as opposed
to
the investors in
the company
that DID keep buying coal and lost a shitload of money
KRS1: And investors keep wondering why
they invested so much.
mircea_popescu: you're in
the wrong business because your business just got better ?
KRS1: Go back
to your directors and
tell
them
to rewrite
the business plan
mircea_popescu: nevertheless your correct decision has so far been
to not buy any coal.
mircea_popescu: now. you nominally are in
the business of buying coal,
mircea_popescu: next week,
they bring in mega
tip
top drilling
tools. you again....
mircea_popescu: you figure,
this will
take coal even lower. and forego again.
mircea_popescu: you figure at
this juncture coal prices will likely go down, if nothing because of
transport, and so forego buying coal yet.
mircea_popescu: they just open a new coal mine.
this coal mine is larger
than any one on earth, and close
to your plant.
ThickAsThieves: you might even say
that investing in a specifically bitcoin-industry business exacerbates
this problem
KRS1: Who cares how much you could have made off of
the initial BTC investment. As long as you've reached your investment goals, deploy
the capital and fund
the project.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 ok, forget bitcoin for a moment, cause
this is perhaps
throwing you.
ThickAsThieves: but
that company cant outpace bitcoin appreciation in whatever currency it plays in
KRS1: Once you reach yor capitalisation goal, why can't yo ujust move on and mature
the IPO as discussed in
the business plan?
The idea is not
to make money off
the initial investment, its
to make money according
to
the business plan.
kakobrekla: why would ANYONE invest in ANYTHING
then
pankkake: "HKCex will also allow customers
to use deposit and withdraw funds
to credit cards using a PayPal gateway" interesting. no dogecoins
though
kakobrekla: <ThickAsThieves> so dont expect
to get more bitcoins
than you put it < wait what??
mike_c: i didn't see
that statement on
the neobee prospectus :)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves
this isn't really
the
thing discussed
tho
ThickAsThieves: when you invets your bitcoins, you are selling
them and buying
that
thing
mircea_popescu: which is contrary
to wat
the company is supposed
to be doing
mircea_popescu: because it's likely
that
this will result in negative returns
KRS1: Why can't
the company cash in
the BTC
to fund
the project?
KRS1: Right, and
thats what I'm having a problem with.
mircea_popescu: efficiently means it will see positive returns above
the risk free rate
KRS1: So a bitcoin IPO is very different
than fiat IPO?
mircea_popescu: KRS1 yes.
the company, once capitalised, has a fiduciary duty
to deploy capital efficiently.
KRS1: The IPO funds should not be reinvested and grown further,
they should be used
to fund
the project mentioned in
the business plan right?
mike_c: well, so is most fiat crowdfunding
too
mircea_popescu: this system whereby corps announce what
they intend
to use
the money for is rare irl.
mircea_popescu: in general a share placement capitalises
the corp.
that capital is
then deployed.
KRS1: That money is
to be used for
the particular product or service mentioned in
the business plan, right? Or do companies reinvest
the money raised from
the IPO and make
that grow?
mike_c: in bitcoinlandia,
there are 2
types of ipos
mircea_popescu: IPO's are not meant
to capitalize and profit directly from investment money. << ?! what ?!
KRS1: into place,
the rest is
trivial. IPO's are not meant
to capitalize and profit directly from investment money.
KRS1: Companies
typically launch an IPO
to raise funds, along with a business plan,
to bring a particular product or service
to market with
the intent on making a profit. Why shouldn't a company raise funds for X amount of BTC, cash it in for fiat? According
to
the business plan,
the investment should request $X dollars for Y project. As long as
the funds are matched, and everything falls
mircea_popescu: god help me. you mean yahoo is seriously going
to do
the whole bs usg
thing in 2014 ?! after it died ?
mircea_popescu: "Yahoo Voices is where your expertise and perspectives
take center stage! Here you will find millions of articles, videos, and slideshows on every
topic – published by Yahoo users, just like you."
KRS1: I hate
to bring
this up again..
that article "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It" still doesn't make sense
to me.
pankkake: the guy is a law student according
to his other posts
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu
thats
the dude from
the customs btw.
benkay: i expect what i do
to be pretty good, and for people
to say 'wow
that's awesome' if
they're easily impressed (or paste into -assets or w/e). what i vastly prefer is "listen kid, stop blathering here here and
there"
mike_c: satoshidaemon
to
the rescue :)
mike_c: that guy could probably help mtgox
too
benkay: problem rather
that constructive criticism is so damn hard
to come by
benkay: writing makes your
thinking stronger.
benkay: gonna make me
think my opinions aren't useless blather
benkay: you gotta stop
this mp
mircea_popescu: Much of
the noise in
the liberal American internet revolves around making people feel good by
talking about
things
they
think are bad and raising
the consciousness in a futile quest
to change
the world by
talking.
There are hugely diminishing returns
to raising consciousness (even assuming
the ideas you're promulgating aren't of
the rankest communist origin). <<
this.
pankkake: maybe
that block erupter will make me rich after all
ThickAsThieves: no, Altcoin will be
the clear winner because it actually serves a purpose:
to clean up
the ridiculous altcoin market so everyone can relax, focus on one, and become rich just like early bitcoin adopters!
kakobrekla: btw if someone wants
to do it, primecoin fork with a finite coinbase should do better
than most of alts outthere imho