781700+ entries in 0.515s
MisterE: a couple breakthroughs such as hiphop and
the hip hop vm jit compiler saved
their ass by like weeks
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Seems if
they are are honest more of a problem of picking
the wrong values
to use as database primary keys.
MisterE: FB almost went dark because
they couldn't scale
their php
to run in huge distributed environments well
pankkake: are
those custom wallets really necessary?
MisterE: sorry if
thats sterotyping lived here 8-years, its
true
MisterE: Typical Japanese / Asian
to blame anything other
than
themselves
to save face
mike_c: if only
they had a PEP
to refer
to when working on
their custom shit.
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Right, but
that is like a super n00by database problem
MisterE: BingoBoingo:
the problem is Gox's own fuckedup internal wallet system
that allowed double spending.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu2: Well, if
they serve you a suspicious IP at least you can know it isn't
the meta-nsa
nubbins`: got
two round loaves in
the oven now
B007_: is mircea_popescu2 even
the real one
ozbot: imgur:
the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu2: i ended up having
to connect by ip because chat.freenode.net for some reason was resolving
to a suspicious ip
B007_: mircea_popescu2:
targetted?
Mats_cd03: I
think it'd be easy, I might even start writing
the code now just
to see it happen
herbijudlestoids: decimation: so it doesnt help in any way except in regards
to
that complaint
decimation: mike, I
think
the "why" can only be conveyed in plain English, like an RFC
mike_c: A formal definition for protocol is necessary, but also insufficient. So now you know "how". But if you don't know "why", you are still going
to end up fucked.
The why is more important.
herbijudlestoids: decimation: someone was complaining earlier
that
the number of nodes in
the bitcoin network running
the actual "reference implementation"
that avoids
this
transaction malleability issue has dropped from ~10,000s in 2011
to ~1000
today
herbijudlestoids: i
think hes just saying bitcoind VM instances, spawned in IaaS, funded by BT
herbijudlestoids: decimation: you mean like openstack swift has done? ;) but i dont
think
thats what he was referring
to
BingoBoingo: So long as
the coins are one's personal coins
decimation: Mats; I doubt anyone here wants
to reinvent S3
Mats_cd03: is
that something you
think people would be interested in
benkay: lissen mike_c i gotta dip a few blocks over
to a nerd
thing i'll be back online in like 20 or 30 minutes
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I suffered
through reading it. It isn't bad. I've found
tear gas relatively not
that bad.
mike_c: yeah.. not about understanding
the notation. i can read assembly
too, but i'd rather read C. but perhaps for something like
the network protocol you're right.
B007_: digitalocean will lock your accout automatically if
they recieve abuse complaints about you
benkay: not even
the part where you guarantee
their security yourself as
the buying party.
benkay: BingoBoingo: yeah, like
the part where you buy 'em.
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: i understand, and apologise, but still, would value
thoughts and opinions on what i
think is a good article. if you like i can pastebin it?
BingoBoingo: benkay: Some parts of bitcoin are friendlier
to dilettantes
than others.
Mats_cd03: i have a great idea: what if someone offered a service for n number of nodes spawned
through e.g. digitalocean
benkay: arguably, if you can't figure it out you shouldn't be fucking with it, and if you can't spend
the
time
to learn
the notation ditto.
benkay: algebra is entirely acceptable for
the spec of both network protocol and blockchain parsing.
mike_c: ah :) i guess i'm saying i wouldn't want algebra or java
to be
the spec.
benkay: i went
to
the bathroom
benkay: mike_c: it's
the difference between algebra and java.
BingoBoingo: B007: Unpoor is predicated on willingness
to learn
though
B007_: mircea_popescu: I still want
to be un-poor
mike_c: would you want
to
try and understand a complex system by reading BNF?
herbijudlestoids: sorry, was raging
to my
team about
the shittiest con call i was just on
mike_c: But what you end with is
the same
thing we have "the code is
the spec".
mike_c: yes, rational rose will convert UML
to code. shitty code
that is far from done.
92AAAD6TI: are you saying
that a graph is defined by how its nodes are labeled and not
their relationships?
benkay: mike_c: you can compile a formally defined state machine into a parser in
the language of your choice. it's not an academic exercise.
mike_c: so a UML diagram helps? I don't
think it does.
benkay: 'cause WHOOO BOY have you read
the
textual spec?
benkay: the english definition's been written by
those who are capable of writing english definitions and not state machines, and its
time for someone
to write
the state machine
mike_c: it's
the definiton & spec of what goes on in
those states
that is more needed.
mike_c: any program can be
thought of
that way.
mircea_popescu: it's a state machine whether we know/admit/notice
this or not.
mike_c: it being a state machine is an implementation detail. a definition and spec would make
the world better.
BingoBoingo: Someone found a pricing error: Basketball SE Missouri State 70
Tenn Martin 79Tenn Martin ML 2 hours ago 7.060 / +606 ฿ 0.005 ฿ 0.0303 paid
mike_c: yeah, so, i believe all
the hairiness would be in implementing what goes on in
those states anyway. i'm not sure structuring
the high level stuff around states would neccesarily make it much cleaner.
benkay: transition
to state: getblocks | state: getaddrs
benkay: transition
to state: exchange version messages
benkay: i'd rather
take
the network client actually
mike_c: take
the blockchain validator for instance.
mike_c: what are a couple states
the machine would pass
through? I don't see it.
decimation: yeah
that sounds legit. I wish
the same brain who invented bitcoin were around
to help perfect it.
benkay: it's a formal definition of bitcoin, as opposed
to
the ad-hoc cpp hairball-as-canonical-thinger
benkay: what's more, a state machine approach satisfies
the "spec"
that mircea_popescu has been going on for lo
these many forevers
benkay: i believe (and i'm open
to suggestions and corrections from
those wiser and more experienced
than myself)
that
the appropriate implementation path for both
the blockchain validatoin and
the network client is a state machine describing
the valid states of
the validator and network client respectively,
the messages
they can process and what states
those messages kick each machine into
benkay: (outta my face - where's
the source?!?!)
decimation: these can and ought
to be split into modules
benkay: and
then
there's blockchain validation
benkay: there's
the network client,
the
thing responsible for connecting
to
the bitcoin/litecoin/altcoin network downloading blocks and broadcasting
txns
benkay: if i might offer a different perspective,
there are several disparate concerns
that could be
tackled independently and independent of language wars.
mircea_popescu: a shoddy bitcoin #1 is actually quite useful, you can have bitcoin #2 all prepared in
the background.
BingoBoingo: Making a minimal functional client for
the purposes of documenting a spec might make a rather ultimate battlegound in
the C vs. LISP wars
mircea_popescu: decimation as a point of strategy,
the would-be dev
team power ranges may be foolish, but
they're useful fools.
decimation: ideally - reduce it down
to a credit card form factor
BingoBoingo: An interesting contest might be
to see who can develop a cryptocurrency incorporating features agreed
to be essential
to bitcoin in
the least amount of code (self contained so any calls
that would be
to external libraries have
to be brought in)
decimation: yeah
the concept of forth on javascript is hilarious, but it's a fun
toy
decimation: after reading enough of
the loper blog I'm beginning
to fantasize about bitcoin written in forth
benkay: THERE IS NO FORMAL DEFINITION OF
THE NETWORK PROTOCOL
benkay: nor do i, but it's clearly
the right
thing
to do and an extremely useful
tool
to know (BNF,
that is)
decimation: I don't have expertise in
that; I'm better at dsp code
benkay: hey BingoBoingo you stop
talking shit on PHP okay?
benkay: decimation: are you interested in working on a BNF rendering of
the bitcoin network protocol?
BingoBoingo: As I understand
the narrative,
this is a n00bier database problem
than 11 months ago.
BingoBoingo: decimation:
The
thing is
this problem nao isn't in
the BTC code at all.
decimation: well, something is better
than nothing. It sucks
to wade
through crap cpp code
to find out how something works