778200+ entries in 0.495s
cads: I want
to
talk about
the econmics of how artists earn
their sentiment, and we seem
to feel
that artists deserve only shitty sentiment because
they're shysters
that
troll for a handout.
cads: even if it is awesome and has done interesting
things in
the market :D
cads: in
the same sense
that we must never expound
the virtues of a song about selling crack
cads: okay, so I understand, kabbalists and artists are our public enemy so lets not be impressed with
them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the john is not a fool, he's buying something for his money.
mircea_popescu: cads picture a chick showing up
to
the sky olympics with
toothpics for sticks.
mircea_popescu: you'll have
to read
teh log, argument started centuries ago.
Namworld: What's
the issue with someone making a living as an artist?
cads: what
the fuck are you doing with yourself
then :D
mircea_popescu: do you
think it's wrong or weak for someone
to make a living as an electric engineer specialised in pottery ?
cads: I
think
that's very cynical, and more of a moral issue.. do you
think it's wrong or weak for someone
to
try
to make a living as an artist?
Namworld: This is
the best
thing ever...
mircea_popescu: no matter how he
tries
to fake
the pretense of being an actual artist.
cads: which would seem
to sustain
the claim
that earning do not correlate
to attention
cads: and
they in fact do better
than artists
that
try
to make
their living purely on
their art
mircea_popescu: i can
think of many ways people structure deals
to avoid
tax.
cads: I can
think of many artists
that make livings working in larger studios
cads: how can
that claim be sustained?
cads: I'm not going
to argue what is art, I'm interested in how artists earn money, and I'm having a hard
time believing
that
the amount of money
that an artist earns does not _strongly_ correlate with
the amount of attention
that others give him.
mircea_popescu: there, share it with
the feminists, it'll make
them like me, much
to
their detriment.
ozbot: What is art ? pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
cads: not a competition of provision of real valued, but a competition
to earn human sentiment
mircea_popescu: maybe
the unseen painting also has. for what we know...
mircea_popescu: except
the point of art is
that it doesn't work like commerce.
cads: mircea_popescu: I'm merely saying one work has influenced far more human experience,
thoughts, and ultimately economic action.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform slowly dieing out, like
the email spammer.
mircea_popescu: the people who do views have nothing else
to do with
their
time
mircea_popescu: so if i were
to give you one of
the
two, you'd pick
the mona lisa ?
mircea_popescu: the oscars
this year
totals films watched by 48599
tons of
tit fat.
cads: in
the landscape of
the possible human experience
time is
the only scarce resource, so if in /this/ universe people have spent more
time experiencing
the first art work,
then I am willing
to say
this is more "important"
mircea_popescu: why not compare movies by
the gross weight of
tit watching
them ?
mircea_popescu: who
the fuck sits in museums with a clicker doing cezanne vs caravaggio minutemanview competition ?
mircea_popescu: would you consider more important
the mona lisa or an equally large, equally well made unknown painting certainly made by da vinci ?
mircea_popescu: and
that different discussion i will appoach from
the following different angle :
mircea_popescu: cads
that is a slightly different discussion, and in no way related
to "views".
cads: mircea_popescu: at some level I feel you are saying
that it absolutely does not matter
that people spent an estimated 34 million minutes looking at
this single artist's work, if only because we can't
trust
those estimates at all.
mircea_popescu: now
the people who have no idea about electronics regularly buy whatever someone;s
telling
them
to.
mircea_popescu: (promoted by interested parties, of course, which is
to say scammors)
mircea_popescu: a view which is actulaly getting a slight resurgence
these days.
mircea_popescu: and its forbidding a serious abuse of
the state power against individual sovereignity
mircea_popescu: but i would like
to add
the observation
that according
to
the 1800s crowd, patent medicine was actually useful, actually valuable and actually working.
mircea_popescu: all
this dovetails neatly, of course, into our earlier kabbalah discussion,
cads: so with multiple servers serving
the same content it becomes a nontrivial
task
to syncronize
the correct number, first
mircea_popescu: first and foremost we must agree
these "views" are a
thing.
mircea_popescu: nor are you at liberty
to imagine
the symbol views denotes whatever definition you may happen
to allocate it.
cads: right, we must
trust
the entity measuring
the views and
the method of measuring
them.
mircea_popescu: all
this aside : putting "views" next
to a number does not
transform
the number into a measure
mircea_popescu: they simply use
that particular bezzle
to defraud whoever's so inclined.
cads: So people pay for views and
they're real.
cads: In
the second and first cases I would point out
that marketing companies
trust view statistics.
mircea_popescu: in fact back in
the lycos/infoseek/geocities days most everyone did.
cads: Okay, so lets start at
the bottom.
The claim
there are no youtube views. Youtube clearly provides analytics on
the number of visitors
to a page. So are we saying
these numbers are fabricated by youtube or
third part 'view providers? Or
that youtube views don't actually record how much attention someone payed
to a video, whether
they really watched it, etc.
mircea_popescu: nono, i'm impressed, deeply, just,
there's nothing
there
to be impressive k ?
cads: For
the agents in an attention economy,
those are important metrics.
mircea_popescu: there's no such
thing as a "view" and consequently nohing
there
to count.
mircea_popescu: i merely showed how
that idiocy reduces
to
the absurd.
mircea_popescu: cads no, you did. "the 9 videos in
the series got 20 million views"
cads: I'll leave it up
to you
to decide what
type of logical fallacy you made by
throwing Charlie Bit My Finger against
the work of a singe avant garde fetish photographer. :D
cads: wait were
the faces edited over
the actors'
cads: mixed reviews from
the critics alternately called it an awesome work of feminism and art, or skeptically denounced it as 'porn, not art'.
cads: despite being arguably non-pornographic (hosted, as it was, on youtube),
the 9 videos in
the series got 20 million views
cads: ah,
the other
thing
mircea_popescu: "i saw you on
the internet. so here's le diable et le bon dieu, read for me."
mircea_popescu: i wonder if giving
these chicks a book and asking
them
to read is a legit pick-up now.
cads: and in
their essays it's clear
they feel
they are helping make sexuality a less dirty, less manipulated
thing
cads: one of
the women is a museum curator
cads: but
the other volunteers are women
that work in
the arts