771300+ entries in 0.483s
mircea_popescu: this is exactly
the
trap VCs in
their own mind struggle with atm.
mircea_popescu: the people who can make asics are ALREADY doing it, on
their own account
mircea_popescu: ok so.
they spent a
trillion "Dollars", but
those
trillion dollars could not have bought a
trillion one dollar ringdings
greenspan_fan: for far less
than a billion I could commission enough asics
to make
the network mine, for all intents and purposes
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu I
think we're a year or
two out before
the hash rate reaches escape velocity
jurov: greenspan_fan:
there are much more cost effective options, and
they are deployed right now
mircea_popescu: not
that you couldn't have run, achilles, but
that you neglected
the
turtle.
greenspan_fan: then I'd move on
to
technical subversion, which might mean dedicating supercomputers
to attack
the blockchain, or just ddos/hack any of
the major players
greenspan_fan: if I had
the resources of
the us govt, and I wanted
to wreck bitcoin at all costs, I'd start w/ outlawing its use for payment, and impose penalties for anyone in my jurisdiction who has a bitcoin wallet
greenspan_fan: I
think we're mainly in disagreement w/r/t whether or not
they'd be able
to meaningfully intervene
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan but a)
they're not inviting him anywhere, because wherever
they are so is he already
mircea_popescu: of course children expect
to be
the kings of creation. so what of it ?
greenspan_fan: so I wish
these people would just get with
the program and not invite
the apparatchiks (I
think
that's also
the model of his desk? from ikea, maybe?)
to mess
things up
mircea_popescu: but merely
that of course he expects it is no ground
to say of course it can be done.
mircea_popescu: more importantly : your average kid on reddit could not survive if i
teleported him
to a random place on earth.
greenspan_fan: bitcoin's an idea, and
to quote abraham lincoln once again, "there's nothing
that can stop an idea whose
time has come"
mircea_popescu: now, on
these reasonable expectations you posit
that
the government can somehow
take
the shine out of metal for
their benefit ?
mircea_popescu: they also do expect it
to continue making
their lives possible, as it has in
the past.
mircea_popescu: so now...
the people whose livelihood depends on government do see it as on
their side. it is.
mircea_popescu: ;;later
tell mike_c here's
the actual data : since jan 1st mpoe bot has quoted 7192
times, for a
total book exposure of 62930 minutes, = ~43.7 days (out of 51.4) so like 85%. of
these in
turn 7 (so like 90%) have been since
the 14th, ie since
the signal divergence.
greenspan_fan: that really should be A4,
to be honest; it's kinda weird how I
thought
that was pre-axiomatic... :(
greenspan_fan: consider
that part of
the "dole", in
the form of pandering
greenspan_fan: so I
think it's fair
to say
that it has some ability
to execute on A1
greenspan_fan: I don't even really know how
the us economy functions, but it does, after a fashion
mircea_popescu: describing
the people
the govt actually extracts value from
to give
to a3.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan your axiomatic system is incomplete.
the redditards live off
the govt dole. since
the govt can not create value out of
thin air, you're missing an a4
jurov: subversion of
the valuable aspects of bitcoin << what should i imagine here?
chetty_: reddit
twerps count as popular demand? now I know I fell down
the rabbit hole
greenspan_fan: P2 (P1, A1):
There's a good chance of government regulation/interference occuring, which, depending on
the effort involved, could lead
to subversion of
the valuable aspects of bitcoin
greenspan_fan: P1 (A2, A3):
The support on reddit indicates
there's some popular demand for government regulation of bitcoin
greenspan_fan: doing so, since I went
to
the
trouble of using colons and everything
Vexual: bc was invented for government fail, not
to solve it
greenspan_fan: A3:
The folks on reddit constitute a reasonable sample of
the voting public, from which "popular will" is derived
greenspan_fan: A2:
the government responds
to popular will,
to some degree
greenspan_fan: A1:
The government has, at varying levels of cost, options
to subvert/ruin
the valuable aspects of bitcoin
greenspan_fan: as you point out
those people are
typically sub 0.1 btc holders
greenspan_fan: he (and his suspiciously low desk) aren't on your side.
They might not be against you, but it's still not a great idea
to do your best
to hand over control
to
the first guy with a
title and incipient back problems who comes along
greenspan_fan: it's a marginal risk w/r/t bitcoin, but jeez, one wishes everyone could just get w/
the program w/o all
these false steps
greenspan_fan: if
there's a big enough push,
the government can/will step in, regulate everything
they can regulate and exterminate everything else
mircea_popescu: not missing
the point is not something you can do on your own ?
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu it's not something
that you can do just on your own,
though
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan so
then act
that way don't expect
that way :D
greenspan_fan: because
that is a universe I would like
to live in
greenspan_fan: (before
the analogies diverge
too much)
the problem is is
that it completely misses
the point about how
there's now a fundamentally different way of acquiring food
greenspan_fan: yes, you can store cheeseburgers in
the same bag, but you could also just use
the drivethru
mircea_popescu: if she finds a new
type of berries, you really expect her
to run home and come back with a new
type of berry bag ?
benkay: eventually
the bag bursts
greenspan_fan: but it's
this unquestioning faith
that
the best policy is
to always shoehorn everything into whatever
the prevailing paradigm was
greenspan_fan: what's bizarre
to me is how everyone in
that AMA was pretty much begging for regulation
benkay: hands off
the servers i promise
benkay: i'm working on
training my first!
jurov: yes, i'm interested wha exactly benkay
thinks he sees
mircea_popescu: jurov you going
to go for a "what
they
think
they see is not what is
there
thus no recognition could have
taken place" ?
jurov: they will
try
to ban it?
tax it? how?
mircea_popescu: today what shocks me about
the soviet aparatchicks is how horribly uncomfortable
their stuff is.
mircea_popescu: one
thing
that always shocked me about soviet aparatchicks was how horribly bad
their suits were.
greenspan_fan: and sometimes,
the people it forces
to stay indoors invent calculus
greenspan_fan: if you
tell all
the churchgoers
to stay indoors it might make a difference
mircea_popescu: take
the great plague. what difference does
the church pronouncement against a great plague, or for it, or about it
greenspan_fan: more
time
to perfect
the algorithm vs. faster adoption?
benkay: this waffling about
the legality of bitcoin by places
thailand etc are just going
to delay its recognition as a
thing by
the big institutions
benkay: on an entirely unrelated
topic
greenspan_fan: it's more something
that you read about for
the ideas, rather
than because it's a complete and fleshed out
theory
benkay: mircea_popescu: what did you
think of
the Jaynes book?
greenspan_fan: have you read Jaynes' "The origin of consciousness in
the breakdown of
the bicameral mind"? it's kinda on point in
that regard
greenspan_fan: I can't even find a keyboard
that has
the greek alphabet in it
greenspan_fan: I'm kinda skeptical
that you can
trace lisp back
to greek
greenspan_fan: I'd put english,
then lisp,
then latin, but
that's probably by order of familiarity
benkay: sure and all programming languages are
turing equivalent so why bother
mircea_popescu: there's no such power of expression function
that can be discussed over
the set.
benkay: what's your ranking of
them by power of expression?
mircea_popescu: in
the sense
that at
the
time french didn't exist latin had been used continuously by millions for millenia
mircea_popescu: "they'll fuck up
the values of our variables and break all
the code"
mircea_popescu: benkay no. "it will
take more
than
they can carry
to
teach
them what we mean by all
the words"