768500+ entries in 0.447s
mjr_: it doesn't work
that way
mjr_: oh, so it represents a debt
that won't be paid
to me
cerelenius: mjr: you cant redeem it, its like a self liquidating
tbill
cerelenius: mjr:
those dollars are fed reserve liabilities backed by fed reserve assets
mjr_: where can i redeem
this debt instrument?
greenspan_fan: let's pretend we're
talking about something
that doesn't involve contracts
mjr_: in
the first case, you have an entity willing
to always exchange at a fixed ratio
cerelenius: tokens havent been used since
tribal days
davout: cerelenius: money is no such
thing
mjr_: we can agree
to disagree
davout: cerelenius: you're working on
the assumption
that money is debt, come back next year
mjr_: that is
the basis of money
mjr_: we can
trade with no debts
cerelenius: if you lend me btc at interest,
the crop price will go down
cerelenius: say im a farmer and i need capital
to grow my crop
greenspan_fan: your line of reasoning is based off of axioms
that other people don't agree with
mjr_: and you can
trade
those assets for others
cerelenius: mjr_: money can be anything
that extinguishes debt. and since only producers can pay off debt,
they are
the only ones who can issue money
mjr_: nah,
think about it
this way
greenspan_fan: so
the alternative is fiat with
the jews or btc with
the cyber-jews
mjr_: some people get
to (shocking) drive on roads
they never paid for
cerelenius: mjr_: all deflationary systems work like
that
mjr_: well...that all depends, you are describing
the "free rider" problem
greenspan_fan: if bitcoin or its like ends up becoming
the main currency, or at least a sufficiently important one
cerelenius: an early adopter or large coin holder just has
to sit and do nothing, as everyone else "adds
to
the ecosystem"
their coins swell in value with next
to no risk, and
they didnt even have
to hire labor lol
cerelenius: apocalyptic: bitcoin as a currency resembles a sophisticated wealth
transfer scheme,
those who have more of it benefit from
the work of everyone else
Apocalyptic: how does
that contradict
the fact you are ?
cerelenius: bitcoins grand accomplishment is
the blockchain
cerelenius: without credit impossible
to allocate any capital
Apocalyptic: businesses will find finances it
they are worthy of it
Apocalyptic: <cerelenius> in bitcoin you will never be able
to have a functioning credit market // as said above, it's not
that bad
cerelenius: you could run a bills of exchange system if
they ever figure out how
to make it decentralized
cerelenius: in bitcoin you will never be able
to have a functioning credit market
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: well yea
there is legit compensation and
then
there is usury.
cerelenius: the problem with usury is your economy never grows fast enough
to keep up with
the debt + interest
greenspan_fan: and yet, I am not convinced
that charging interest is bad. If you want me
to loan you something,
then you should compensate for my not having it while you use it.
cerelenius: venice went from richest region in
the world
to flat broke
greenspan_fan: in
the midst of dynastic struggle, wars, and massive religious upheaval
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: you are clueless. renaissance was
the birth of capitalism and large scale usury in
the west, it ended up destroying all
the participating city states
cerelenius: in bitcoin large holders have
to do nothing, becuase as
the armies of fanatics spread
the gospel and do all
the work,
the largest holders get all
the purchasing power
transfered
to
them
cerelenius: renaissance was a bread and circus
to cover
the economic looting of
that
time
cerelenius: thats what occured in florence as well, you had
the biggest prosperity ever yet
they ended up imploding since
the commoner couldnt afford
to run a family
cerelenius: it ends up backfiring on
the rich
though over
the long
term
mircea_popescu: let
the idiots be poor, best
thing for
them and everyone else.
mircea_popescu: cerelenius
that's fine, brains distribute about
the same way.
cerelenius: the same
thing under 100% gold standard
Vexual: floating a
theory is free dickhead
cerelenius: investing is when you combine capital with labor, ideas etc
to create new value
davout: mircea_popescu: you forgot
to mention
the derp hour apparently
cerelenius: you arent adding capital
to any project
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: you
talking about florence
mircea_popescu: <greenspan_fan> all monetary is jewish monetary
theory << actually it's gypstalian
greenspan_fan: then don't invest in bitcoin. You'll get better returns with your
trailer park meth lab.
mod6: fountainhead was ok. i
think 'we
the living' was better if you must.
greenspan_fan: cerelenius usury is what deadbeats call it when
they can't meet
the interest payments (because
they're deadbeats), let alone
the principal
antephialtic: if you really must read a long one, read
the fountainhead, its a lot better
than atlas shrugged.
Bugpowder: Also I'm
too
tired
to figure out how
to recurse
this nicely.
antephialtic: if you're going
to read a rand book, read anthem, its much shorter and gets all her ideas across without 1200 pages of
terrible dialogue
greenspan_fan: jesus. of course. it makes my
top 20 most
tedious list.
davout: cerelenius: actually bitcoin is jewish in
the sense
that you're not invited
cerelenius: bitcoin is 100% jewish monetary
theory, hoard coins and watch
them swell in value while adding zero value
B007: where is
the business?
cerelenius: satoshi was probably jewish, from
the economic
theory around btc at least
mircea_popescu: o wait i
think i must have mixed up my stereotype cards
davout: mircea_popescu: are
there?
davout: mircea_popescu: wrong,
the smart jews don't have anything left in gox since 2011