768400+ entries in 0.521s
mjr_: which...how can
they pay for something which
they created?
mjr_: the
treasury doesn't just give
the money
to
the fed
MisterE: and we're
trying
to spend our way out of it
cerelenius: 2008 was a shot across
the bow, a warning of
the future
MisterE: and if it crashes
that hard we're all fucked so it's AK-47
time
MisterE: no
thats shit people actually need
cerelenius: mistere: before
the USD collapses youll have hyperdeflation
cerelenius: hyperinflation under such a system is next
to impossible, you can have hyperdeflation instead
MisterE: poor cerelenius and
the rest of
the sheep who still have faitin in
the financial house of cards
cerelenius: the only
taker has been
the government
cerelenius: the fed flooded
the system with credit but
there were no
takers for it, hence
the huge reserve balances banks now hold
MisterE: so I can get all
the BTC for myself!
mjr_: but
they don't create it
cerelenius: the fed doesnt print money
they lend it
mjr_: that is def not
true
MisterE: now
tell me where
the bottom is :)
mjr_: well its
true
the fed said it
mjr_: oh,
the fed says
that
they should print more money
mjr_: i don't care what
they write on paper
mjr_: you don't redeem
them
mjr_: but in
the real world, in your real life
mjr_: sure its fun
to
talk about retarded shit like
this
cerelenius: everytime new FRNs are
to be printed,
there has
to be a posted asset
mjr_: i
think
that you are missing
the forest for
the
trees
mjr_: what "debt" backs
those?
mjr_: they don't issue
them
mjr_: and are not made by
the fed
mjr_: there is no rule anywhere
that says it does
mjr_: that entry in
the book is an asset
mjr_: in
the human made scheme
that conforms
to GAAP
mjr_: or rather...i should say
that in our accounting system, a receivable is listed as an asset
MisterE: and
tell us why
they no longer publish M3?
mjr_: you are mixing up accounting
terminology with real life
mjr_: to say
that
the fed has "assets" backing
their dollars
MisterE: they print $ by adding zeros
to a number on a computer
cerelenius: the
treasury runs
the printing press at
the behest of
the fed
Vexual: yeah and gox has coins,
tell us something good
mjr_: the
treasury actually creates
the dollars, at least m0
MisterE: why is
this happenening, CEP resigning from BTC.org?
mjr_: are you saying it is physically impossible
to print a dollar bill without
the fed?
davout: mjr_: it all makes sense in his system because
the juice run
the fed or w/e
cerelenius: if
there was no debt
there would be no dollars in
this system
mjr_: since you don't seemm
to understand
mjr_: i am
trying
to
talk about
the BASIC definitions
cerelenius: paper dollars are liability of
the fed
mjr_: yes i know all
this, and it doesn't change
the fundamental everyday reality
cerelenius: someone constantly needs
them
to repay a debt
cerelenius: thats why
there is always a BID for dollars
mjr_: since
the fundamental core concept of a debt is
that it can be "redeemed"
mjr_: in which case i would like
to borrow as much as i can from you
mjr_: unless you are using
that word in a completely differnt way
than i
think
cerelenius: mjr: a
token is not a liability of someone
mjr_: which we use
to exchange value
mjr_: if you cannot
trade it in for a fixed amount of something else...there is no difference
to you
cerelenius: fiat money and credit money are 2 different
things
mjr_: nice, i'm glad you read "debt:
the first 5000 years" but
that is not actually
the case
davout: cerelenius: by definition fiat money is a
token
that is assigned value because of a law, not because it represents a claim
to anything
mjr_: whatever we have done in
the last 40 years doesn't fundamentally change
the meaning of
the word money
cerelenius: its impossible
to repay debts under
the current system because
the dollar itself comes into existence
through borrowing
mjr_: first off,
that is my point, "notes" represent assets on account
cerelenius: mjr:
thats
the system
they created since
they got off gold redeemability
cerelenius: mjr: yea i agree its not redeemable, its like a 0day
tbill
mjr_: so i have a debt
that means you have
to pay me other dollars
mjr_: then it isn't backed by
the house...
mjr_: that is like saying "a mortgage is backed by a house, but you cannot ever
take
the house'
mjr_: what is
their collateral?
mjr_: a debt means
that i am OWED something
cerelenius: every single paper USD in existence is backed by assets
the fed holds
cerelenius: mjr: of course it does pull up
the fed balance sheet