751300+ entries in 0.512s
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have
to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone
to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if
they have an oscilloscope ($100)
thestringpuller: wow looks like
there will be some interesting
things in
the logs
mike_c: wait for it.. here's
the part where he asks for funding.
assbot: Last
trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00081576 BTC [+]
moiety: it's also made it clear, you don't actually read
the logs
ninjashogun: but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in
this conversation -
that are also actionable. It might be very hard
to make a reality, but at least we know
the market is
there.
ninjashogun: this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy
to manufacture. I don't know how much
those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough
to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need
to.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you
took
the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card)
then people wouldn't have started using it.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works
totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.
moiety: ninjashogun: i don't believe
that's my place
to do so
moiety: asciilifeform: please
tell me you heated it with lasers
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it's more secure
to use chip'n'pin because
the card info isn't sent in
the clear.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it needs
to look like a card because
that's how people were
tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)
moiety: ok i may have been a little enthusiastic
there.. BUT you cannot deny if you were offered gpg
tea or normal
tea, you would ask for gpg
tea
ninjashogun: I
think
that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you
targeted
the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell
them as a plug-in solution
to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible
to piggy-back on
that system and let merchants use it as
though it were card, meanwhile
the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de
joecool: asciilifeform: *but* does it lock out after
too many failed attemps?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it was more on
the smart chips in some atm cards.
moiety: i
think we should use gpg for everything, everywhere, all
the
time
benderp: don't see what all
the rush is about
Diablo-D3: you're looking at
the problem wrong
moiety: ninjashogun:
that was in no way, shape or form a serious comment. my apologies.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, we were discussing what it would
take for everyone
to understand and use it :)
ninjashogun: I mean if you
took
Trezor and made it look like an ATM card, by shrinking it down
to
the same chip size. (chip and pin)
ninjashogun: then its readers would be connected
to
the bitcoin network instead of
to a bank network.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, if you moved
trezor into
the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using
the same
technology -
then it would be interesting.
benderp: hardware wallets are actually more complex and a greater pain in
the ass. users must understand
transactions, how
to generate one, how
to sign one, and how
to
transmit one.
ninjashogun: So in
this sense
the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used
to
this mode of money use.
benderp: even moiety's in on
the game now
deadweasel: ninjashogun: we could use
toe warmers?
ninjashogun: The issue
then would be
that
the only conceptually accurate device hte users could
think of like a physical wallet, would have
to be hot all of
the
time.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. However I'm
trying
to approach
this from
the point of view of a user.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, so, conceptually, it would have
to be "Ooops, I was wrong." until it syncs.
moiety: speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once
tweeted about how being a nerd in japan was much better as he had
talked a japanese chick into marrying him lol
ninjashogun: I just know
that conceptually an offline wallet is probably hte easiest
thing
to understand.
ninjashogun: I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and
the account receives a
transfer for someone, how will it get updated?
benderp: how is an offline wallet going
to know its balance?
moiety: ok, imma just head off
to get a BTC
to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb
deadweasel: slightly, but only for
the already
technically advanced
ninjashogun: benderp - yes, probably. Do you
think an offline wallet device
that just knew its own balance (and displayed it continuously), had no backup or restore functionality, would ease
this portion of
the hurdle?
deadweasel: benderp: yeah, low hanging fruit, I should have started
there.
benderp: ninjashogun:
the rational
thing for long
term btc holders is...
benderp: ninjashogun: another challenge is
the backup and restoration problem.
ninjashogun: moiety -
the reason for leftovers is because you might want
to buy something else as well? People generally exchange more currency
than
they will immediately spend, and keep
the change
to spend on other
things.
ninjashogun: Oh....if in all
the above you guys meant "you're not going
to explain bitcoin Qua Investment
to a newbie, and
then get
them
to buy bitcoin"
then
that's probably
true :). I wasn't
thinking of it as an investment just
then.
mircea_popescu: not
that it ever was much of a
thing, but for
the sake of lulz.
moiety: i mean as in, what would be
the point in having leftovers if you were only buying it
to buy something else
ThickAsThieves: SR is an exception, not
the common motivation
to buy btc
ninjashogun: moiety, why would exact amounts be
the best conversion?
moiety: otherwise ninjashogun people would be buying exact amounts for
their purchases
to get
the best conversion
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves what about silk road and questionably legal
things? Didn't people buy btc specificially for
those uses?
benderp: the
thing with
the people who buy
things with bitcoins, is
that eventually
they will run out of bitcoins.
ninjashogun: deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin
to buy
things" -
though
to be fair
ThickAsThieves probably meant
to say
that as a generalization, which is
true.
deadweasel: they don't accept
them and less
than 1% of
their biz is btc.
they let Coinbase or Paybit or whatever do it
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves,
that's not
true. Some people uses bitcoin
to buy some
things. if
that weren't
true,
Tiger Direct wouldn't accept htem.