749500+ entries in 0.481s
mircea_popescu: of which i doubt very much is
traded on any sort of a daily basis.
nubbins`: for example, i don't day
trade, and i don't
think most others here do either
mircea_popescu: i would agree.
there's about a million btc represented here,
Namworld: That would make more sense, at least for
those
that daytrade.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: in my experience,
those who day
trade don't really hold long-term, and vice versa
ReutersEmily: like
the way you
talk about hedge fund guys who make zillions and could retire at 40
ReutersEmily: then maybe people will just be asking if you are going
to get out
the
trading
nubbins`: the implication being
that widespread acceptance is
the only
thing
that will lead
to sustained high value
Namworld: So yeah, if BTC is ever worth a fortune each,
there will probably be no need
to
trade
them for cash,
they'll probably be widely accepted by
then for
them
to have appreciated
that much..
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily instead of everyone else having
to get in, wanting or not.
nubbins`: for example: if 1btc=$1m, i wouldn't need
to "cash out" because i could just as easily spend my btc at walmart
ReutersEmily: and
that is what you were
trying
to explain
to
the wired guy who had
to go and drink
tea and
think about it afterwards?
ReutersEmily: as in, people asumme you're going
to get "out" of bitcoin
Namworld: Well it's pretty much what's said in
the movie, edited a bit
to include Bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: "o x y z won't invest in btc" "dude, it matters not if
they do it directly or
tyhrough n layers abstracting it from you, it's still what's going on"
mircea_popescu: i was actually explaining
this
to a guy from wired yesterday
nubbins`: i was actually explaining
this
to my mother yesterday
mircea_popescu: nubbins` fuck, i could have said
that. who beat me
to
the punch ?
ReutersEmily: but of
the cases i did cover closely i never saw a defendant i
thought was wrongly accused.
Namworld: But I haven't had
time
to
think about
this
topic in details
to form a specific or resilient opinion of
the matter.
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu i know. i don't know each of
the cases well enough
to be able
to say
they were "all correct"
mircea_popescu: consider for instance
the outrageous case of
the swiss heinz options
traders.
Namworld: But never prevent insider
trading on
the buying side.
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu regarding cases brought over
the past few years....of
the 79 criminal insider
trading cases brought by Manhattan federal prosecutor, not one has ended in an acquittal
Namworld: But at
the same
time, if you need
to work hard
to earn
through Business, why shouldn't
those who have information
through working hard not
trade on it? Why prevent use of such information? I would perhaps only agree
to go against management insider
trading in case of catastrophic scenario (undeclared losses/bankruptcy), where management would probably both have ruined
the company and
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily you've followed
the cases in
the past few years, since it's your beat. would you say in each and every one it was your opinion
that
the actions as decided by either sec or courts were in fact correct ?
ReutersEmily: so actually mircea_popescu i am sure i can find
this on your site
too but how do you keep people from insider
trading on MPEx?
ReutersEmily: well
they're pretty straightforward in
that you have
to have a
tipper and a
tipee, and
the
tipee has
to know
that
the
tipper is getting a personal benifit in exchange for giving out inside info
bounce: hard
to see how
they would not be
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i do
think
there's something
there myself. just, you know... apparently it also burns.
dexX7: yes, but i really like
the idea.
ReutersEmily: anyway, Cohen said in a deposition a few years ago he
thought insider
trading rules were "vague"
mircea_popescu: dexX7 perhaps.
though
the rota project as originally designed proved unworkable. it'd have
to be worked on.
nubbins`: kinda sad i missed out on
that
bounce: the name popped up in a wonkblog piece I googled just now; could well be
the one I read earlier. name didn't stick, but he got done for insider
trading.
ReutersEmily: if insider
trading were legal we would have an even deeper gap between have and have nots
mircea_popescu: because i'd likely just start screaming and overturning
tables.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i wouldn't want
to be in any board where
the ceo goes "well icahn just offered me 50mn, what you guys got"
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu you're right it also does affect
the stability of a company's stock price
theoretically when you have insider activity
mircea_popescu: unless you want
to live in a world of socialised dope care, it'll have
to stay illegal.
bounce: difference between having an opinion and letting it colour your writing, which could well be a challenge
to separate.
mircea_popescu: Namworld
this is exactly
the equivalent of "why regulate psychoactives" debate. because if you can you must, and if it's legal
to do amphetamines companies will start mandating
their employees do it.
Namworld: Information on
the market is assymetric everywhere else, almost. I don't see why force it for securities.
ReutersEmily: i guess, without offering
too much of an opinion since I am a journalist and not supposed
to have any, i would add
that
the markets aren't fair anyway
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well
the better opposite view is
that it's really not against
the people working at companies' interest
to allow
that "hard work"
to fruit, as opposed
to
the interest of
the actual companies.
nubbins`: as an investor, i'd be pretty sore if an officer of
the company in which i invested started
telling his buddies when
to sell
ReutersEmily: but
the opposite view is
that it makes
the markets
totally unfair
Namworld: I
think you're
thinking of something else.
ReutersEmily: i guess
the people who
think insider
trading shouldn't be illegal argue
that if you can work hard for
the advantage--ie get contacts inside a company
to leak you stuff or whatever, you deserve
the competitive advantage?
bounce: well
that's clear enough. :)
LordPutin: that's
terrible Namworld i feelforyou
nubbins`: i
tried
to get a local CBC investigative reporter set up w/ pgp
bounce: forgot who wrote
the piece I remember reading, quick google
tells me john carney and dylan matthews said
things
to
that
tune not
too long ago
mircea_popescu: really if i had
to
talk
to a ws whistleblower,
thats what i'd use, or else pgp over email.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily
the real reason you want a client is
that you can
then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you
to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and
that is good quality safety, not
the sort of crud normally peddled.
☟︎ Namworld: About 180 BTC, more or less. I would need
to check.
bounce: since you're covering fraud and stuff, what do you
think about
this stance
that insider
trading shouldn't be illegal?
BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Right.
This channel has a log linked in
the
topic, but for other channels and conversations you depend on your client
to keep logs for you
mircea_popescu: Namworld ah ? didn't know
that. how much you still have out ?
Namworld: Well
technically I have yet
to repay everyone, so, no,
that's not yet a fact.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: great for when you want your computer
to freeze when opening an email
Namworld: [10:19] <mircea_popescu>
thestringpuller namworld did it.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nice example nubsy. it's
totally like outlook.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: most of us use dedicated software
to connect
to irc, rather
than a website like you're using
ReutersEmily: uh...they just upgraded our computers here at work
to windows whatever - 7?
dexX7: look at
the hostmask
Namworld: Software
to access IRC channels. I suppose you're using
the webchat?
mircea_popescu: there was some unfortunate guy
that
took out a bond in btc and paid it out early on
thestringpuller: is
ThickAsThieves
the only person
to issue a bond and not fuck over people?
mircea_popescu: (for instance i don't write out ReutersEmily every
time i name you, i just
type out re)
Namworld: He doesn't speak much at all usually. I doubt he'll
talk
to
the press when he refuses
to say anything
to anyone.