737500+ entries in 0.357s
tg2: the only way
to counterplay would be
to know
the private keys in advance
ThickAsThieves: "The coins are not stored on
the public addresses shown on
the homepage.
They go into a secret chamber buried underneath
the arctic circle Wink
ThickAsThieves: I
thought I had answered my own question after I sent my message
to you. I
thought your answer was going
to be "Because all of
the coins are stored in
the public addresses on
the home page, and everyone would see we were filtering out money". Do
the coins all stay in
the wallets posted on
the home page (until dividends are paid), or do
they get moved around in storage?
mircea_popescu: many children, many people with no
training or much understanding, lot of hype.
ThickAsThieves: For example, if I
took 10 btc of SD earnings and rebet it over and over and over, eventually it would all be owned
to
the shareholders on mpex because
they would see
that
the site had xxxxxxx in bets and xxxxxxx in profit owed
to
them.
ThickAsThieves: How would
this hide profits from shareholders? It would do
the opposite... it would inflate
the site's earnings (because 1.9% of all bets becomes site profit) and
then would require
that
the site pay shareholders -more-
than
they should legitimately have.
ThickAsThieves: Am I missing something about
the setup
that prevents
this?"
ThickAsThieves: "What could stop SatoshiDice.com from using it's own profit pool
to place bets on it's own site
to hide profits from shareholders?
tg2: is really
the only way he could be guilty of anything
tg2: whether or not erik did anything
to deflate or inflate
that value
tg2: ultimately somebody had
to buy above 'value'
Namworld: Now without proof Erik did anything wrong... what are you
to do?
Namworld: They got
the short end of
the stick, but is it because a scam occured? Contract was respected and outperformed.
They bought at
the high.
ThickAsThieves: it was actually
the first
thing i ever did in bitcoin communication, sent a msg
to erik asking how it could be proven he wasnt stealing
Namworld: Afaik it was not Voorhees' I
think, just one of
the private shareholder selling. I suppose accusations come from people who bought
then.
Namworld: People complained because new shares were put up and sold in
the 0.004-0.006 range if I recall right, for about 5 million shares?
Namworld: The IPO was lower
than
the price holders got.
Namworld: 10 million at 0.0022 and 0.0027 I
think it was, in
two slices. Or was it 3?
Namworld: They got like .0032 instead of ~0.0011 I
think as
the sale price commanded.
Namworld: They get 1/2 instead of 1/6th of what
they paid because MPEx shareholders got about 3x
too much for what
the sale price was.
ozbot: The question of
the year in BTC pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: afaik
there was
this longstanding
theory
that erik is betting with himself. i never could see any proof for it, people were welcome
to find it etc.
tg2: hard
to calculate who got
the great deal
tg2: but yeah it does open
the door
to fukc al ot of people when you pull strings on both sides
tg2: that's a
tough accusation
to clear
Namworld: Now, if
they could prove
that,
the story would be different.
mircea_popescu: we give bitcoin
to
the russian-ec or
to
the chinese-ec or
to
the cyprus-ec
Namworld: Basically, contract was respected. People are mad about
the SD deal because
they can't verify anything about
the sale.
They bought at a high price and claim Erik sold
to "himself" for low after selling some shares for a very high price or other such accusations.
mircea_popescu: they wanna
take a crap all over it, no big deal really.
mircea_popescu: tough
tits for
them. i was not kidding when i said
their future is at stake. it is.
tg2: take houses,
take cars, indict everybody
tg2: I know people involved in
the awesomepennystocks.com fiasco
Namworld: and all holders on MPEx got a very good deal in
that sale.
Namworld: Either way, people butthurt about buying
too high from
the bigger shareholders who sold when
the price was high.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves such fucktards with
this bs. just won't learn will
they.
mircea_popescu: alternatively,
they get a pitchfork mob going, and i'll have
to hire a security detail around
the shop.
mircea_popescu: hopefully
they find someone in new york whose brain works and
they patch it up.
mircea_popescu: eventually shop owner calls
the special down syndrome kid number
to have
the kid removed from
the premises.
mircea_popescu: shop owner goes hey! if you want
to buy sometrhing, go like
this, if you want
to borrow something, go like
this
Namworld: Afaik, I
think it was not Erik
that sold shares over IPO, but
the offer was other shareholders
that wanted
to sell at
those high prices?
mircea_popescu: tg2 we never got
to know what
they actually wanted because
they could never figure how
to express
themselves.
Namworld: Yet
this excellent deal for MPEx holders didn't please people who bought way over IPO price.
Namworld: Because sell price way under IPO price, yet all MPEx shareholders got like 3x
the price per share such
they
they'd get over
the initial IPO price at
the expense of private shareholders.
tg2: things like
that happen
though in regular companies
that are listed, private party has an interest, buys all
the shares above market, non-voting can't do much about it
Namworld: I suppose especially
those who bought from
the slices of shares over IPO prices.
benkay: MPEx is
the big
target.
Namworld: Because some people wanted
to keep shares/complained?
tg2: so if
the dice buyout was kosher, ie: all
the buyers got
their fair value for
their shares, why is SEC sniffing around for
that corp in particular?
Namworld: It's
that most scams fail
to even come close
to meet
those requirements.
Namworld: It's not like
the requirements are
too much or
too hard
to meet.
Namworld: Not
too hard I suppose, but yeah, what Mircea said.
tg2: how difficult is it
to get listed on mpex?
Namworld: and
that's
the point I was
talking about. I don't care about people believing
them
to be official because of
that. It's not like it's
their problem or anyone's
to go put disclaimers on everything so people don't have
to
think and just follow directions.
tg2: >
The MPEx holders nevertheless received 0.0035 per share,
mike_c: geez, i am starting
to sound like you.
mircea_popescu: there's no process. mpex shares hold no voting rights. nobody asks your opinion on how
the comp is run.
tg2: just curious about
the process
tg2: and you didn't want
to sell it
tg2: wouldn't all
the shareholders have
to agree
to sell it?
Duffer1: tg2 probably a
trilema article on it
Namworld: Did
they ever claim
to be official? I recall seeing claims of being
the largest discussion forum about Bitcoin and
that's it.
Namworld: Yes, all I'm saying is, if
they're biased, okay. But why blame
them for people confusing
them for being official?
tg2: so how did it get sold
to private party
then
nubbins`: that's distinct from being official,
tho
Namworld: Just about
them claiming
to be somewhat official.
nubbins`: Namworld: if sportstalk.org predated widespread use of sports, it probably would be quite
the hub of activity.
Namworld: We're not
talking about wether
the mods did something wrong or not right now...
mircea_popescu: dude get out. if you're running sportstalk.org and ban all discussions of all white players you're going
to be drawn and quartered.
Namworld: If someone
thing it's official, it's because
they have no idea of
the substance of
the
topic, not because
the forum owners didn't put enough disclaimers.
Namworld: Same as if someone
thought someone running gunstalk, goldtalk, sportstalk or whatever kind of forum was
the official worldwide representative of guns, gold or sports respectively.
mircea_popescu: "n 1994 Crichton became
the only creative artist ever
to have works simultaneously charting at No. 1 in
television, film, and book sales"
Namworld: If people
think
they're official, it's because
they don't understand Bitcoin, not because
they run a Bitcoin forum.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. why would
these derps run a bitcoin forum ?
Namworld: A little mention "not official, Bitcoin is decentralized" under
the names would be nice, but what if
they don't? I ain't going
to harass
them all day long, now, should I?
mircea_popescu: well maybe you should run a catholic choir nambla local group
then ?
Namworld: It claims
to be a Bitcoin forum like
the foundation says Bitcoin Foundation.
That people perceive
them as official or not, I don't care.
Namworld: As such, my point is as valid as if
the forum was called
theymosandcotalk.org
mircea_popescu: Namworld it claims
to be. peoples implicit claims are held against
them.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla deeper
than
that :
they moderate
the content
to favour scammers, under a pretense of moderating
the form.
Namworld: I wasn't aware it was somehow official. Is
the Bitcoin foundation official
too?
pankkake: bitcointa.lk does not detect
the extension :(
kakobrekla: they do not moderate
the content but
the form
mircea_popescu: so
this has been an exercise in "let's discuss how
the salmon would fly if it had no wings" ?
Namworld: There's a reason why I'm not a forum admin
tho, hard decisions
to make, everyone always butthurt all
the
time, more bland content and same old being repated you can't read and filter everything.
mircea_popescu: especially if
that JoeDork was someone with a reputation of any kind.
mircea_popescu: Namworld yes well, some people make MPs
thing, some other people make Bitcoin
thing.
Namworld: I'm not
there
to protect people's feeling like I'm not
there
to protect people from scammers. Just preventing straight up inflamatorry posts without substance.