asciilifeform: but i specifically refuse'em because NOT ORTHOGONAL, they don't belong as part of a general-purpose numbertheoretical minimal 'crypto lego set'.

asciilifeform: incidentally in case it weren't obvious, much bloatier rsatrons than the one contemplated in ffa, fit in asciilifeform's head -- e.g. montgomery mult, barrett, various war crimes in that vein

asciilifeform: ( unless and until i were to hammer it into MY head such that it wholly fits )

asciilifeform: and moreover i can never be convinced that they ain't lying TO ME

asciilifeform: it does not fit in my head, and i am not convinced that the folx who claim that it fits into theirs, ain't lying

asciilifeform: incidentally this is why i oppose ellipticcurveism

asciilifeform: which until recently was hammered into every kid

asciilifeform: nuffin in there is any moar weighty than long division.

asciilifeform: but my aim is to write an rsa such that, yes, no one can be considered numerate if it does not fit in his head.

asciilifeform: arguably the jury's still out on what constitutes 'every literate man's head' capacity

asciilifeform: which is why we ain't using it.

asciilifeform: this is actually the situation with, e.g., fft mult

asciilifeform: which incidentally i am ready and willing to produce for every single piece of ffa to date.

asciilifeform: ask for proof of correctness.

asciilifeform: if he ain't in l1, ignore, for starters.

asciilifeform: no such thing is contemplated

asciilifeform: a tub of liquishit -- fits in none.

asciilifeform: a proper fits-in-head item fits in the literate man's head.

asciilifeform: generally this is not an actual problem, 'but what of different heads'

asciilifeform: nor ever will, or could

asciilifeform: i can state with confidence that kochiana fits in NO head

asciilifeform: the essential point is that the two are NOT SAME mechanisms

asciilifeform: though it may in majority of observed cases produce 'correct answer' to the naked eye

asciilifeform: i'd like it not to be lost upstack, so will restate ftr : a 'optimized' rsa that no longer fits in head and is no longer demonstrably-correct , ( and worse yet, no longer operates branch-free ) is NOT RSA and is simply a turd being fraudulently passed off as the genuine article

asciilifeform: though may seem that way to fuzzy thinkers

asciilifeform: specifying detail != sliding

asciilifeform: !#s chess boxing

asciilifeform: make'em sing

asciilifeform: why not also singing.

asciilifeform: wtf is it, a car design + racing contest

asciilifeform: 2+ param optimization is a punishment, not entertainment

asciilifeform: ahahahahalol

asciilifeform: ( where do they draw the line ? why not rocket engine ? )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the race is a fuzzy thing to begin with, if the cars can be arbitrarily altered

asciilifeform: the process is 'must fit in head'. for so long as item fits in head, it is demonstrably solving the stated problem ( which, unsurprisingly, must also fit in head as a statement )

asciilifeform: not demonstrably.

asciilifeform: except that : it is no longer the SAME IT

asciilifeform: it also comes from 'reasonable' people who 'oh hey i can make rsa 1.5x faster if i use weird bases, so what if my code is now 20kline instead of 2k'

asciilifeform: and did not get properly hammered down

asciilifeform: comes from young cocks who want to 'make their mark', most typically

asciilifeform: it's a pollutant.

asciilifeform: shoot people for adding complexity. regardless. of. why.

asciilifeform: understand, you gotta ACTIVELY push back

asciilifeform: and just about everywhere where folx did not actively push back.

asciilifeform: this is the typical complexitycollapse, happened to, e.g., ibm pc

asciilifeform: it is usg.rsa.

asciilifeform: it is NOT RSA

asciilifeform: and result, whatever else it may be, is not sane. in that it no longer ~demonstrably~ behaves as specified.

asciilifeform: and answer is that obviously idjits will take ANYTHING you make, sane rsa, sane kalash, whatever, and Bolt Shit To The Side

asciilifeform: it is indeed

asciilifeform: the folx who took stock cars, and tore out seats, floor, etc ?

asciilifeform: not directly

asciilifeform: it's every bit the fastest when sat on proper iron.

asciilifeform: you solve this by making the sane solution, actually usable.

asciilifeform: like kochian rsa.

asciilifeform: propping is how you get walls that dun stay up 5sec when unpropped.

asciilifeform: by shooting architects.

asciilifeform: not by propping

asciilifeform: even if cost is 1e6 litres of blood.

asciilifeform: when you stop letting -- it stops.

asciilifeform: it degrades because folx let it.

asciilifeform: if we gotta compute on fpga, to do rsa sanely -- then fpga it is. 8192-bit regs.

asciilifeform: dunno what is complicated about this

asciilifeform: because there is demonstrably no difference.

asciilifeform: and use usg's rsa.

asciilifeform: if idjits want to optimize in a way that results in nonfittinginhead, they may as well install winblowz

asciilifeform: and that an rsa that is not ptronic is not worth using

asciilifeform: i hold that it is not meaningful to attempt to separate'em

asciilifeform: ( incidentally reader might ask 'why not do montgomery? you're doing rsa anyway' and answer is not only 'maybe tomorrow, cramer-shoup and not rsa' but also that we do things such as primality testing , and other non-rsa op )

asciilifeform: correct

asciilifeform: is what i was trying to get across in the beginning

asciilifeform: which resembles yours, and doesn't win anything in our case.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that it holds, as written. in re knuth, turned out that i was thinking of the 'addition chains' method of mod-exp

asciilifeform: one way or another it will have to appear.

asciilifeform: the saving grace is that indeed i and everybody else can get by without ideal modelf kbd. but on the other hand i ~do~ need a modmulter.

asciilifeform: ( seems to have variant with numpad nao! but STILL no f- )

asciilifeform: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com << linked for compleeetness of thread

asciilifeform: ~unusable

asciilifeform: but for some odd reason he made a variant without f-keys, arrows, numpad

asciilifeform: recently there was even a d00d who had entire model f made this way, in a run of 1000 or so

asciilifeform: *unsurprisingly

asciilifeform: ( it is -- unsuprisingly -- mostly tooling cost )

asciilifeform: there used to be a club where various folx pooled dough and bought.

asciilifeform: yeah 5-10k usd

asciilifeform: and probably last as long as plastic keys.

asciilifeform: low-tech , 'cheap & angry'

asciilifeform: prolly if i desperately wanted custom keys, i'd laser the letters and then cast into acrylic.

asciilifeform: i dun actually make keyboards. but did once say 'i'd like a stainless steel kbd' and for some reason the reaction is always 'no have THIS instead'

asciilifeform: presumably you would inlay 1st then cut the meniscus.

asciilifeform: though i have nfi how one would do the inlay such that surface is smooth to the touch

asciilifeform: but yes i thought about wooden keys. probably would want a custom milling rig to make'em ( something like a lens maker's lathe )

asciilifeform: to what stress is the picture frame subject ?

asciilifeform: ironwood would probably work.

asciilifeform: let's ask pete_dushenski if there are wooden gears in his rolex

asciilifeform: ( does N subtractions , N nullity tests, and when modulus is maxint ( and therefore at all times ) it reduces to the classical's cost )

asciilifeform: and ftr mircea_popescu your algo takes at least N times more cycles than the classical.

asciilifeform goes 'wtf, THIS crackpottery of mine - you lot find interesting, but the stubborn boojum that keeps 'p' from happening, not interesting somehow '

asciilifeform: so long as you get the sproing -- worx

asciilifeform: ibm made a magnetically-tensioned kbd at one point

asciilifeform: it dun have to be an actual spring, ftr