73400+ entries in 0.887s
fractal: therefore , the hardware
as advertised, failed to meet performance numbers
fractal: Diablo-D3: they ended up with more then 400Gh. But the 400Gh unit did not perform
as advertised --
as was required by the bet
mircea_popescu: traditionally it's presented
as a dichotomy, business / personal.
fractal: Diablo-D3: The 400Gh unit
as advertised did not meet performance (400Gh and 400W)
random_cat:
as best i can tell, btc-e charges 0.1 ltc to you for generating the redeem code
random_cat: thx. i don't know how others think of it, but i usually think of interest
as paid after
gribble: #17698 Sun Sep 1 06:26:18 2013 random_cat BUY 1.0 loan of 350 ltc for 16 days @ 0.5 btc (will provide 6.65 btc
as collateral)
fractal: I think this is a serious discussion to have If i were bitbet.... its clear they shipped on time and are a great company .... but the language of the bet here -- specifically what a 'UNIT' is defined
as-- is very important.
tyrion70: well if I ordered them and I cleared shelves in my rack I'd be very sad if they were 10 times
as large
as advertized...
Anduck: would they ship 16 h-cards
as promised for 400gh unit?
fractal: a UNIT has to have performance. and the definition of the UNIT is what bfsb.com says -
as advertised - "1 Master board. 16 hashing boards. 1 Raspberry Pi Model B"
fractal: Anduck: yes it does. bfsb.com says the hardware unit is "
as advertised - "1 Master board. 16 hashing boards. 1 Raspberry Pi Model B""
fractal: Anduck: thats right.... nobody is disagreeing with that. We're talking about the bet language which defines a UNIT
as as advertised - "1 Master board. 16 hashing boards. 1 Raspberry Pi Model B" -- this is 365Gh
fractal: Anduck: No, performance of the UNIT
as defined in the bet is 365Gh
Anduck: fractal: and that changed to more hardware, performance of the unit is still kept
as promised
fractal: 1 UNIT is,
as advertised - "1 Master board. 16 hashing boards. 1 Raspberry Pi Model B"
fractal: So what is that its not fair to NO betters who based their bets on the definition of a UNIT
as advertsied at the time of writing the bet.
fractal: Anduck: But the definition of a unit ,
as advertised by bsfb.com, was "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips " -- and it is not 400Gh
tyrion70: its relevant because you don't recognize it
as being a variable..
fractal: In my view
as well, getting more hardware is the same
as if the manufacturer missed performance, let them keep the 365Gh UNIT, and offered a $ refund.
Anduck: that someone think unit is strictly 256 chips
as they said?
Anduck: the performance of the kit is
as promised
Anduck: the unit is the same thing
as kit. the bet says "25 gh and 400gh unit" and bitfurystrikesback sells 25gh kit and 400gh kit so you can pretty much say those are the same
fractal: Anduck: any rational person would assume the 400Gh unit to be a KIT
as defined on the BFSB.com website.
Anduck: since there's no such thing
as unit defined.. but the kit is defined at bfsb.com
fractal: Performance is only 1 aspect of the bet -- there are many conditions. 1) it has to ship by sept 1 - yes 2) 5 people have to post it on forums - yes 3) the 400Gh 'UNIT'
as defined at the time of writing should hash at 400Gh. - no.
Anduck: tyrion70: unit is the kit. we already talked about this. it's the only way to understand it
as thats the only thing defined
Anduck: the kit is same thing is a unit -
as we talked earlier
tyrion70: yeah so you could read a unit
as 1 m board and 16 h boards..
Anduck: units that are same
as kits
as we talked earlier
Anduck: and those formed in
as units
Anduck: they were sold
as cards and boards
fractal: 400Gh UNIT was advertised
as "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips"
Anduck: the chip amount has changed. this is not
as relevant
Anduck: it does the 400gh
as promised, that is relevant. and that it does it at promised efficiency
fractal: rulother-tab: Its great that they got more then what they ordered. But what is at debate here is what a 400Gh unit is. At the time the bet was made it was defined at "a UNIT was ,
as advertised , "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- and that only does 365Gh. which means all conditions of the bet are not met
Anduck: there's no way it should end up
as a no since all the requirements are met.
pankkake: if the bet resolves
as Yes I would be happy because fractal will be unhappy. if the bet is No I will be happy because I get my money back. cool!
fractal: a UNIT was ,
as advertised , "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- this does not do 400Gh.
fractal: When people placed the bet, all the information they had to go by was that a UNIT was ,
as advertised , "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" .... This is the only amount of hardware they were taking into consideration when making the bet.
fractal: No. he got a 400gh KIT
as advertised -- ""1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- which missed performance targets. that the compmany sent him more hardware has nothing to do with the fact that the 400Gh unit
AS ADVERTISED is 365gh
Anduck: but the hashrate of 400gh unit is 400gh. (actually more). and the efficiency is
as promised
Anduck: the unit is the same
as a kit
as we've already talked earlier, right?
Anduck: but the bet wasn't about that to be
as promised
Anduck: and the kit is the same
as unit in the bet description
Anduck: doesn't matter does the miner color or size or chip amount change. it performs
as promised. the kit said 400gh at <400W and thats what they delivered.
Anduck: the performance is
as promised, that's only thing that is important for the bet
Anduck: the kit does >400gh
as promised.
Anduck: and we already agreed unit is same
as kit
Anduck: fractal: unit is a kit
as we already talked before.
Anduck: still performs
as promised but with more hardware than promised
Anduck: we already agreed that the kit is the same
as the unit.
Anduck: order 400gh unit -> get 400gh mining power at promised efficiency. how does it not perform
as promised?
fractal: No, it doesn't perform
as promised
Anduck: the language says that the kit must perform
as promised. the kit perform promise is at the bfsb shop:
Anduck: the kits are promised
as the parenthesis says and that is met
Anduck: and we agreed already that unit is the same thing
as the kit.
Anduck: no it doesn't say "performance of the unit
as advertised". it says "must meet advertised performance (25 GH/s unit 40W, 400 GH/s unit 400W) "
fractal: pankkake: it says the performance of a UNIT
AS ADVERTISED. The advertised 400Gh Miner was -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- it is onlt 365Gh.
Anduck: it requires the unit/kit to perform
as promised, that is 25gh at 40W or 400gh at 400W
fractal: Anduck: The fact is that people betting on bitbet.us can ONLY go by what the language of the bet says --- The bet says a 400Gh miner,
as advertised, must be 400Gh.... The advertised Miner was -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- it is onlt 365Gh.
Anduck: the unit changed from 1 m-board filled with 16 h-cards to 2 m-boards with 19 h-cards. so they failed this.. but the UNIT does
as performed
fractal: Which means the bet is a no. they shipped more because they missed on performance. its the same
as a refund.
fractal: Read what I wrote with care
as well.
fractal: Anduck: Thats not what the bet says. the bet says a 400Gh miner,
as advertised -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- must be at least 400Gh -- it is not.
Anduck: bitfurystrikesback says 400gh kit (same
as 400 gh unit
as we accepted) will deliver 400gh at <400W. this was met. the chip count though was changed from 256 to more.
fractal: the 400Gh UNIT
as advertised -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- must be at least 400Gh -- it is not.
Anduck: i get a 400gh KIT which is same
as 400gh UNIT
as we already accepted.
fractal: The bet says the 400Gh UNIT
as advertised -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" -- must be at least 400Gh -- it is not.
tyrion70: hence it can be read
as "what I receive when I order one" or "1 m board 16 h boards and 256 chips"
fractal: pankkake: Hashrate for the 400Gh kit/unit
as defined by the hardware,
as advertsied , was not met.
fractal: pankkake: 400Gh miner -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" --
as advertised -- only does 365Gh
tyrion70: but there is no such thing
as a unit...
pankkake: honestly, I think it should resolve
as yes then
fractal: pankkake: 400Gh miner -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" --
as advertised -- which is what was required by the bet -- only does 365Gh
fractal: it's very clear
http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/400gh-miner-october-2013/ -- 400Gh miner -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" --
as advertised -- the hardware did not perform
as advertised. The bet clearly states that the hardware must perform
as advertised. All conditions of the bet were not met.
fractal: tyrion70: I think its clear the bet language is not great. it its cancelled, i would understand, but I think it comes down to what most people would interpret a 'UNIT
as Advertised'
as being...
Anduck: they failed to ship the kit
as described, though the kit does deliver the performance
as promised. nobody can say that unit = 1 m-board + 16 h-boards, that wasnt ever defined anywhere!!!
fractal: Anduck: well, it says '
As advertised'
tyrion70: well.. you read and interpreted the word unit
as order or kit
Anduck: but the performance isn't same
as hashrate
fractal: Anduck: Thats irrelevant,
as thats not what the bet says.
Anduck: but the 400gh unit ended up to be 2 m-boards + 19 h-boards. so they fucking failed that hardware amount promise, RIGHT???? but the 400gh unit (which has now changed to 2 m-boards instead of 1) they ordered performs
as promised
fractal: No, its not. The 400Gh unit ,
as advertised "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips", is only 365Gh
Anduck: it wasn't about how much boards the unit must have or is the hardware amount
as advertised
fractal: Anduck: The BET says '
as advertised'
Anduck: but those hardware
as the unit would still perform
as promised
Anduck: but it still performs
as promised
fractal: Anduck: And a KIT,
as advertised is "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips",
tyrion70: anduck, I could argue that if I ordered a 400GH Kit
as you describe it, I now received 2 units...
fractal: The UNIT,
as advertised, didn't perform
as promised .
fractal: So, how do you expect people to read the bet, --
AS adveritsed -- ?? and then tell them later 'Sorry, it doesn't matter if that was
as advertised'
Anduck: but
as long
as it performs
as promised, the bet is yes
fractal: Anduck: the bet says nothing about keeping promises and shipping more hardware if they miss performance numebrs, it simply says that the 400Gh unit,
as advertised "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips", must be 400Gh... IT was not.
Anduck: fractal: but there's no such thing
as unit at the bfsb.com shop