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asciilifeform: my ancient v100 , could also be reworked, but i'd like to put it to rest ( for one thing, it dun check hashes at all )

phf: asciilifeform: you're just spreading fud, i don't know where to start unpacking this conversation ☟︎

asciilifeform: i'd also like to see a continuing existence of multiple working vtrons, so eventually would like to rework mod6's to use newtype format ( unless mod6 would prefer to do it himself )

asciilifeform: afaik nobody's used esthlos's item in battlefield yet, it'll need good bit of test.

asciilifeform: once it ~does~ exist, and fully displaces the duct tape, then yes i'ma start regrinding other things , and i expect then mod6 -- trb, etc

asciilifeform: phf: this is not a criticism of the format. but turns out asciilifeform has been looking for a 'i missed it in logz?' piece that doesn't exist quite yet ( hopefully will in 3 days... )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 13:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform, np; re vtron yes, currently it is only vdiff and vpatch functionality; I use old v to see the flow (since it checks the seals but doesn't care about the hashes until press time) and then the vpatch to actually press; looking forward to esthlos' vtron

asciilifeform: possibly this is not 100% fair picture , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854956 is only half-handcranked, but still, semi-automatic ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( recall, i introduced the patches thing considerably prior to ~vtronic~ patches )

asciilifeform: apparently diana_coman has been hand-cranking it, sorta like asciilifeform's 1st yr of trb pre-vtron

asciilifeform: and yes it is the picture i got from log. the gap in my head is where diana_coman switched to the new format; i then assumed there is a 100%-complete new vtron, and that 'hmm simply missed this, is in log somewhere' , turns out nope, notyet

asciilifeform: phf: try an' see from my pov : i get a 'goddamn stop using old v' , go an' uncrate the replacement, and turns out it ain't a plug-in replacement but a set of pieces and a roll of duct tape

phf: asciilifeform: but if you want a full "v replacement and i don't want to think about none of that" then just use esthlos's item. i believe he has a working keccak already ☟︎

lobbesbot: phf: Sent 14 hours and 6 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> nm, distinguished by hand... but my vtron doesn't verify the sigs (not immediately sure why) and mod6's -- sees only Leaf: vtools_vpatch_newline.vpatch (phf)

lobbesbot: phf: Sent 14 hours and 10 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> are http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ old-style or new-style vpatches ?? my vtron won't press'em, and there is no way to distinguish , nor anything in the post to indicate, unless i'm thick

phf: need for the separate keccak hashing tool, because vpatch ensures that the result is valid.

phf: asciilifeform: this has been extensively discussed in the logs. there was never a need for "new style v". v works just fine. one of the design goals of vtools was to nail down (and improve upon) the patch format. vtools are explicitly designed to be used with an existing v (for example i use it with v.py). vdiff produces wellformed vpatches and vpatch presses them ensuring that the format is valid and that the hashes stand. there's no ☟︎

asciilifeform: mod6: puzzler -- solved, asciilifeform -- thick.

asciilifeform: ( fughot that they decrement ! ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: mod6: the latter was the one i turned out to have on my box last night

asciilifeform: mod6: that there's '99993 K' . but what was '99994 K' ??

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 13:26 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854880 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854913 << interestingly, this worked, mod6 ! wtf is 99994 K one ? where did i even get it ? ( i take it , was buggy release ? )

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854940 << The changes and reasons for, are discribed here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-February/000290.html ☝︎

asciilifeform bbl : teatime.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 22:01 asciilifeform: unlike some folx (as late as '16 some confessed to git ) asciilifeform does not use heathen versiontrons internally, strictly 100% v from aug '15

a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 22:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prolly like most folx who actually work on proggies, asciilifeform has '9000' vtrees on various disk, on various boxen, that are in classical format, and many not even intended for publication, the ones that see daylight naturally will become newtype

asciilifeform: ( given http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854819 + http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854820 , i'd really like to have a 100% working item prior to entirely retiring the old ) ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: if phf's item came with a standalone keccak hasher , would then be quite simple to retool e.g. mod6's vtron, to follow the new format. but as it is loox like i'ma have to wait for esthlos , to get full working replacement for old vtrons

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 02:27 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854912 << I plan to integrate Keccak into the thing this weekend. At that point it should be fully operational.

diana_coman: I kept waiting on phf and esthlos since they were working on it as far as I could tell; and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854921 ☝︎

asciilifeform: i'ma try esthlos's item as soon as it is rolled out.

asciilifeform: this is what i thought, and why i did not hurry to start the regrindings earlier

diana_coman: asciilifeform, not that I know of; I use: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854956 ☝︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: is there a version of mod6's vtron that uses the new vdiff / vpatch ? or what do you use in erryday work ?

asciilifeform read whole thing

diana_coman: fwiw I *did* specifically state in the manifest that it's using Keccak hashes

diana_coman: I'll have to, since the sigs need to fit the .vpatch file name, yes

asciilifeform: danke schon, diana_coman . feel free to rename the filez.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, ok, I'll mirror your sigs too and link to the page anyway; a bit later today

asciilifeform: about to post

diana_coman: I added the manifest + comments in it; otherwise *all* code is precisely what I got from pressing your patches

diana_coman: asciilifeform, np; re vtron yes, currently it is only vdiff and vpatch functionality; I use old v to see the flow (since it checks the seals but doesn't care about the hashes until press time) and then the vpatch to actually press; looking forward to esthlos' vtron ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: aaand it loox like diana_coman already did my chore for me... i'ma do the elementary test on it nao, and sign/mirror.

asciilifeform: call me an idjit, but i thought there were a new vtron... ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you normally use this with a hand-patched mod6 vtron ? or how ?

asciilifeform: and apparently this is not a full vtron, but only replaces 'diff' and 'patch' ....

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 09:31 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854882 -> got your .tar.gz but I could not find in it the .wot and .seals? at any rate, if I copied over the .wot and .seals dirs, it pressed perfectly fine with v here (9999 K version); ftr I ran also precisely the v.pl you have in there and it also worked!

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854926 << ~this~ is pretty strange; diana_coman wouldja mind sharing your working set there ? ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854926 << confirmed ( and somehow nobody last night noticed ? ) apparently tar by default refuses to tar up 'hidden' ( i.e. starts with . ) dirs ! ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854880 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854913 << interestingly, this worked, mod6 ! wtf is 99994 K one ? where did i even get it ? ( i take it , was buggy release ? ) ☝︎☝︎☟︎

diana_coman: I'll add the patches for the tester on top of the above, later today

diana_coman: since I need to get the work done on this, I reground the UDP lib and I'll proceed from there; asciilifeform, phf and anyone else interested, keccak-patches are on my Code Shelf as usual: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-477.0-477.19 ☟︎

diana_coman: adding to the above: old v can still be used to check the sigs, to avoid manual check; so use old v to check the sigs and once satisfied, just feed patches to vpatch

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform phf's thing presses fine, since at least june ( http://thewhet.net/2018/06/mp-wp-genesis-regrind/ )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 02:28 trinque: obviously I want such a vtron for the cuntoo final cut, or what's the use of the build process producing a vpatch

diana_coman: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ -> gotta ask here, phf, am I missing something or what Wednesday was that there in the first line meant to be? ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 02:27 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854912 << I plan to integrate Keccak into the thing this weekend. At that point it should be fully operational.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854921 -> oh hey, looking forward to it! ☝︎

diana_coman: re using vtools, I currently first check sig (so by hand, separate 1-line) and if ok, then feed patch to vtools

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 01:34 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/v_noworky.tar.gz << the complete tarball with both variants, patches, seals, .wot, my attempt thus far.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854882 -> got your .tar.gz but I could not find in it the .wot and .seals? at any rate, if I copied over the .wot and .seals dirs, it pressed perfectly fine with v here (9999 K version); ftr I ran also precisely the v.pl you have in there and it also worked! ☝︎☟︎☟︎

BingoBoingo: <trinque> does it now properly verify hashes? << I am still at the point where I hand read input, patch, and output

trinque: obviously I want such a vtron for the cuntoo final cut, or what's the use of the build process producing a vpatch ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 02:03 trinque: does it now properly verify hashes?

esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854912 << I plan to integrate Keccak into the thing this weekend. At that point it should be fully operational. ☝︎☟︎☟︎

mod6: lol, I don't know how to make it do stuff either, but I guess that's a different problem :]

mod6: Alright, I guess the makefile doesn't build the vpatch binary by default, so I built it manually:

mod6: the full vtree (with sha vpatches) totals 11. so ya, you must have removed them.

mod6: but I only ended up with a 'vdiff' binary (maybe this is correct?)

mod6: I used your patches, there are 8 of them, and I was able to press this fine.

mod6: I took your tarball, dumped in the latest version of my vtron, dropped in the .wot (phf) and seals from what I had in my sandbox previously.

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I used the esthlos thing.

asciilifeform: loox like the matter may have to wait until the folx with working keccaktrons wake up and tell me what i'm missing.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if i'm not mistaken, you built and used this thing? with what didja do it ?

asciilifeform: for this, need keccak vtron. presently i dun have one.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu & diana_coman specifically asked asciilifeform to rebake udp proggy in keccak.

mod6: (I was just double checking here as to not waste time.)

mod6: aha, ok. in the past, i've alwasys built the sha256 stuff for my own purposes. let's see if i can get the keccak stuff build.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 18:46 diana_coman: asciilifeform, udp tester seems to be nicely running uk->uy and uy->uk so my next step on this will be to publish all the relevant code; since this is effectively on top of udplib, I'd patch it on your tree; mind moving it though to keccak?

asciilifeform: y'know, thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854734 ☝︎

mod6: so... is the goal here to build the sha256 stuff, or the keccak stuff?

asciilifeform: this thing is supposedly battlefield-ready, but presently loox to me like a ball of yarn for which no working build instruction is posted anywhere

mod6: Oh yeah, did we ever post that somewhere?

BingoBoingo: mod6: iirc, buried in open tabs and notes on the import matter

mod6: Ok. What are we trying to do here? Just build vtools?

asciilifeform: unless i made an elementary mistake and somebody tells me what it was

asciilifeform: mod6: i sat down and resolved to give diana_coman the promised item, but presently loox like won't happen tonight

mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i dunno, it's been a while. i don't have time to tinker with it at the moment, gearing up for month end here.

asciilifeform: maybe i'm thick, and didn't shuffle correctly, or wat. phf can i persuade you to give a working recipe ??

mod6: BingoBoingo: is this right ^?

mod6: im not positive, although, I think another troublesome one was hanbot's wp-mp, which BingoBoingo used esthlos' to press. i think.

asciilifeform: yes i read the note, to remove the sha branch. did it.

mod6: one has to, again, if i remember correctly, remove some of the vpatches from the "right" side. or something to that effect, to press successfull.y

asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/v_noworky.tar.gz << the complete tarball with both variants, patches, seals, .wot, my attempt thus far. ☟︎

mod6: anyway, it's been a while, so I don't know for sure, but if memory serves, I believe his vtree is incompatible with my vtron, on the whole.

asciilifeform: mod6: thing says '99994 K' in there.

asciilifeform: ftr i tried mod6's 'Version: 99994 K', and my old workhorse v100.

asciilifeform: i'd like to press this thing and put it in service already...