log☇︎
71700+ entries in 0.482s
asciilifeform: i suspect fs-as-db will have same problem as the ancient shitdb
mircea_popescu: the other problem is that a good db fix is a very large project, because bitcoin is written insanely. and our fs db isn't moving, last i heard a month ago someone was going to try and profile an extx ☟︎
asciilifeform: (b) is where i ended up earlier.
asciilifeform: and i did not bother to vpatchify it.
asciilifeform: i also have a test going where :
asciilifeform: all i got is a stopwatch. the idea is, mod6 et al can run same stopwatch, on other boxes, with other types of disk
mircea_popescu: and i'll point out that the problem here isn't the work, or the thought, but the fucking packaging. you get overexcited and oversignal. it detracts from very valuable stuff.
asciilifeform: and i will point out, none of my findings so far contradict mircea_popescu's original 'it sits and waits for the disk.' only question was, where.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 23:20 asciilifeform: type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way
asciilifeform: mno, we had a thread where i cut'em up into classes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you, using my patch or similar, determined that type1 (verification) blackhole consists of any substantial portion of something other than db wait -- i'm all ears
mircea_popescu: "i observed something on three blocks on one machine and here's the 100% conclusion ; tune in tomorrow for another one that a) fails to reference how i was wrong yesterday or address why and b) offer another 100% plus measures to be taken" is entirely undistinguishable.
asciilifeform: sadly i have 0 solutions, only moar problemz
mircea_popescu: that specific sort of retard is specified as follows : "i heard about bitcoin yesterday, and i have a solution!".
danielpbarron: those nodes could even give part of the fee to another node for further paid relaying, by giving with the original transaction along with another one that spends the not-yet confirmed fee (not allowed! i know, but in this case maybe it helps more than it hurts)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the analogy doesn't hold. currently the tool gives miners cake while nodes pay for the electricity. there's some people cheering on the sides, which i suppose makes the nodes all warm inside ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the wallet : i would fucking love to see a mpfhf collision on 513 byte input.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. to get the system off the ground. i explained this before, im pretty sure.
mircea_popescu: i don't see this "so regularly"
asciilifeform: and for all i know, most tx are fake, generated by miner himself, or cartel
asciilifeform: and i see some ~every day
mircea_popescu: i implemented it!
trinque: i.e. every relayer gets nibble of fee
trinque: I can see it. he does however lose any fees he might've had.
trinque: I'm more interested in the claim that null tx == junk tx
danielpbarron: like if I sent 0.00000001
asciilifeform: a null seat in a block, IS, i argue, a type of junk tx
asciilifeform: we have, if you will, a kind of leak. which is what all socialisms is, a disjunction where 'i can eat, these others -- pay'
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/trb-i-addressing-scheme-proposal/ << Trilema - TRB-I Addressing Scheme Proposal
asciilifeform: i suspect that you still gotta have the god-fee if you want 0socialism. like or not.
asciilifeform: btw i suspect that 'tx must include a micro libation to the gods' -- i.e. a leak -- is a necessary component of 'hard vacuum', 0socialism trbi as discussed earlier
asciilifeform: while we're doing trb-i : in addition to 'tx is 1024 bytes, and block is 1024 tx' , consider another item: 'block MUST contain 1024 valid tx'
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 00:21 asciilifeform: to possibly squeeze something useful from thread: as i understand, a lamport-based 'trb-i' ~could~ run on z80.
asciilifeform: i like lamport's
mircea_popescu: in any case i'm not a huge fan of the current address derivation scheme
asciilifeform: (i will leave the proof as exercise)
mircea_popescu: i guess.
asciilifeform: i suspect that the most that can be hoped for, is a large pile of items that are provable to add ~zero or more~ headache to the enemy, individually AND in the aggregate.
asciilifeform: ( it is worth ~attempting~, but i know of 0 attempts founded on anything . )
asciilifeform: fwiw i am not convinced that this is possible.
asciilifeform: so as i understand it, the pictured scheme in all cases makes enemy's work no easier than it is now.
mircea_popescu: (i dunno if you recall the net history, was at a point swedish torrent published openly mockful "takedowns" on its website)
mircea_popescu: so "i volunteer this neck to squeeze" ? tyvm.
asciilifeform: i will guess that the scheme described above, is the closest anyone will ever see to an actual hard-solution to the given problem.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: last i heard, they set up a 'parallel whitehouse taiwan' to 'report' on.
asciilifeform: btw i know of 1 simple way to make 'blinded input'
mircea_popescu: i meant the what's it called, alt-coin
mircea_popescu: much like i much prefer the "i took my pills" to the "i'll be careful" female declaration.
mircea_popescu: much like i much prefer the "i'll be careful
asciilifeform: aha, and if anyone else can think of something that belongs on the list -- i'm all ears
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm always open to technological solutions to replace political solutions.
mircea_popescu: but you asked, and i tried to provide.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there might be others, i make no pretense to exhaustivity, hence why this is a very early phase of the design. we don't well know the space yet.
asciilifeform: (i even suspect that it is possible to rigorously prove that these requirements are mathematically contradictory)
asciilifeform: (why -- i have nfi)
asciilifeform: (i was presupposing 'incentive to move while classical bitcoin is not on fire')
mircea_popescu: absent a good or at least workable breakthrough in this vein, there's no strong technological incentive to move to trb-i
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you.
mircea_popescu: this is what i'm saying, anyway. " what we don't really have is the stuff that we really need, such as debottlers."
asciilifeform: i recall a proposal where ^
mircea_popescu: yes, but the idea is to not expand the hipster doofus design principles to trb-i
mircea_popescu: it was an instance of "here's something i made that doesn't work, mommy loves me" complex.
asciilifeform: wasn't that ^ thing simply an instance of 'i'ma put some coin on the floor for a miner to take' ?
mircea_popescu: if your idea of "i want to spend my dime" reduces to "well, have a mining farm" suddenly the whole thing's ~useless.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, 'fuck you, i won't relay this, your addr ends with my auschwitz tatoo number' ?)
asciilifeform: i am at a loss as to how this problem is solvable in general case. aside from mircea_popescu's answer to my 'panopticon' thread, 'don't get caught in a jar!'
mircea_popescu: i did not say nodes. i said networks.
mircea_popescu: "how do i know i talk to nodes that are representative ? cheaply and easily ?" for instance.
mircea_popescu: the g has a decent debottler built in ; the trb-i does not, and needs a few.
asciilifeform: i can't even count how many arms and legs exist
mircea_popescu: i know you'll say "there's one". but can you count ?
mircea_popescu: that's why i aim to buy the arab girls rather than convert to islam. they can keep their fucking ethnosocialism.
asciilifeform: is what i meant
mircea_popescu: it can be priced see. if i wish to pay a ten bitcoin fee, i thereby have the right to make my tx last into the eons
trinque: I have a gpg wrapper CL item I wrote
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 19:39 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617985 << yes, I will look into storing pubkeys elsewhere, nuke keyring, pass pubkey each time to encrypt call.
asciilifeform: fwiw i still use my vtron and his interchangeably.
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah yes I do. I'll need that pgpdump guy, store what's extracted from the key
trinque: whereas now I'm asking the keyring
mircea_popescu: trinque my concern was more in the vein of, i don't want deedbot to answer with an item crafted as described to a !!key command
mircea_popescu: i said harder not impossible.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617985 << yes, I will look into storing pubkeys elsewhere, nuke keyring, pass pubkey each time to encrypt call. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: if the network worked as you describe, i'd have had to choose on which network i wish to spend.
mircea_popescu: i now have two bitcoins - a real and a fake one.
mircea_popescu: let's see. i have a bitcoin. the network forks. i spend the bitcoin. the spend is valid on both networks and thus included by both networks. in different blocks.
mircea_popescu: see, the fact that you don't have txn as you describe is what allowed me the "you will die if you fork" threat last year : i don't have to know jack about their chain to murder their chain.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618154 << it's so funny, at least to me, the sheer wastage of resources usg oligarchs engage in. they keep buying things, which they don't understand, on the expectation that "we;ll find a use for them". they do. it's ALWAYS the same one. somehow the fact that i know in advance what it'll be doesn't inform them as to their horrible strategic position. ☝︎
asciilifeform: which is why i won't even take a position on this , and leave it up to folx who actually worked this scenario in real life , e.g. mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: trinque: looser variant buys you 'i can give canned tx to my friend so he can move my coin to /dev/null when usg shoots me, but nowhere else'
asciilifeform: the one tricky question i can think of is, how does it behave under reorg.
asciilifeform: scheme is a quite obvious one. but i bet if there is anyone whom this shoe pinches, it'll be mircea_popescu , he will tell us where.
asciilifeform: in given trb-i scheme, a block either exists on disk -- or does not
asciilifeform: in either hypothetical trb-i -- you no longer need a db. any db.
asciilifeform: ( but as i described, you can make it protocolically impossible, by demanding parent's hash )
asciilifeform: to clarify -- in my mind, a 'trb-i' ~must~ be capable of checking validity of tx at wire speed (i.e. at the speed it is physically capable of receiving them) on reasonable iron.
asciilifeform: (alternatively, could require that a tx include a 'i want to live in block N' value at birth! and if it doesn't get into N, it is invalid for all time. but this would have serious engineering tradeoff, 'canned' txen as discussed in old mircea_popescu article would be impossible.)
asciilifeform: a mature (i.e. mined) tx's id will then consist of the concatenation of the block number it lives in (say, 64bit, enough until long after sun burns out), then a 10-bit offset into the block (0..1023) , then hash of payload.
mircea_popescu: trb-i, yes?
asciilifeform: a method of bitcoinating where you can actually get ~100% of the socialism out (as contemplated in, e.g., the gossip threads) would, i suspect, be a similar jump.
mircea_popescu: i think it a very apt analogy actually.