676900+ entries in 0.461s
Naphex: bitcoinjs looks
to have multisig support
Naphex: and
the raw
transaction is read only :P
dignork: yeah, but it expects
two privkeys :)
Naphex: but kinda fits, what i was looking for is something where you input
transaction, signed & composed by person A
Naphex: only
the outcast one which looked
to only work with its own privkeys
Naphex: dignork:
thx, haven't seen
this one before
Naphex: its no problem, was just looking for a already made
tool
dignork: actually
they - shesek, you can
talk
to him
dignork: Naphex: look at bitrated.com,
they did it properly, and
their code is on github
Naphex: then
they can just sign with password
Naphex: probably even simplify and use lotsa scrypt rounds and use a password
to gen priv key
Naphex: i create
transaction and just pass it
Naphex: put raw
transaction in, + privkey sign it
Naphex: yeah - will probably just write some simple
tool
dignork: Naphex: you can show
them full json on site/send by email w/e
Naphex: would probably be easier with bash and
terminal
Naphex: davout: yep, but you need
to make a json array with
the redeemScript, inputs and script-pubkey
davout: Naphex: maybe an idea would be for
them
to simply use
the qt built-in console rather
than a full-fledged
terminal?
Naphex: davout: just need em
to sign a
transaction once in a while
davout: Naphex: you apparently haven't learned
the "don't give people bitcoins if
they ain't educated enough
to handle
them
themselves" lesson heh?
mthreat: davout: ah.. no
that's ok..
thanks
davout: mthreat: so you know as much as i do ;) i'll put you in
touch with
the guy
that did it if you want
to implement sthg on your side
Naphex: but i'll probably write something simple
to sign it
Naphex: the yeah i know sx, but needed something
to give
to a noob. who won;t be able
to command line it:P
davout: mthreat: have you read
the paper from adi shamir and dorit ron?
mthreat: davout: nothing specific.. just seems like
there could be some interesting stuff, watching
the flow of coins
davout: TheNewDeal: if you give some low value
thing in exchange for a zero-conf
tx, you might find it useful
to immediately get
the information
that someone is attempting a double spend, rather
than having
the info cock-blocked
dignork: Naphex: if it's 2-3 multisig, check bitrated.com, it allows
to use online generated keys, or just use pubkeys
TheNewDeal: wasn't sure if it was considered bad behavior
to propagate a double spent output
davout: TheNewDeal: i
think what you're referring
to is nodes banning some of
their peers, you don't really ban nodes from
the network
assbot: The results of
the World Cup experiment. pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
davout: mthreat: i know a guy
that did if you're interdasted
TheNewDeal: I'm just
thinking in
terms of my vending machine example
TheNewDeal: isn't
there something about nodes being banned for like 24 hours for bad behavior?
davout: TheNewDeal: you don't double spend a
transaction, you double spend an output, but other
than
that, nothing really until one of
them gets into a mined block, more information can't really hurt
TheNewDeal: well what happens
to a node
that has a
transaction and receives information about a double spend of
that
transaction?
davout: mircea_popescu:
thinking about it, i'm usually not very fond of arguments
that nodes should behave a particular way, simply interested in
the case against
transparently relaying all legal
txes, even if
they are double spends
davout: mircea_popescu: "it was argued
this isn't so smart." <<< i'd be interested in reading
the argument
mircea_popescu: they have no incentive (perhaps
the best candidate for a satoshi oversight is not putting any incentive for
tx relay at all)
to behave properly and a lot of different
types of misbehaviours necessarily include
themn
mircea_popescu: anyway, node behaviour is going
to be
the major
topic of 2015 i suspect.
Naphex: to pass
to a noob
to sign his stuff
Naphex: anyone can recommend a easy
tool
to sign multi-sig
transactions ?
assbot: Relay first-double-spend
transactions by gavinandresen Pull Request #3354 bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub
mircea_popescu: seeing how blacklisting is still a
thing, consensus kinda favoured current behaviour for good game
theoretic reasons
davout: i
think it's easier
to handle an obvious double spend
than
to keep
track of 'good' vs. 'evil' nodes
mircea_popescu: well yeah. conversely,
type 1 makes it obvious which nodes get poisoned
davout: pankkake mircea_popescu i
tend
to
think it's better
to
transparently relay both
txes, so
that
they're much easier
to detect if you care about
them
mircea_popescu: davout
type 1 (pick one
tx, relay
that) "poisons"
the nodes
that got
the dblspend.
type 2 (relay all) doesn't.
pankkake: iirc
the payment protocol (I know, right) can make propagating
the
transaction
the responsibility of
the merchant
mike_c: the double spend had
to do with making
the SD
tx ugly (lots of inputs), and double-spending with a fee. SD just started using fees and problem went away iirc.
pankkake: davout: I've read some interesting debates but I don't remember
them
mike_c: this was explored exhaustively with satoshi dice. some serious gymnastics pulled it off with
trivial amounts, and SD
then reacted and closed
that loophole as well.
davout: am i
the only one
to
think it's actually stupid
to not relay double spends ?
TheNewDeal: couldn't any derp go
to blockchain
tho?
pankkake: nodes shouldn't propagate
the doublespent
tx if
they have
the first, but of course it's not 100% reliable
mircea_popescu: 1 confirm (as opposed
to 0 confirms) helps if
they
try
to isolate you in
the convey
txn graph
mircea_popescu: 6 confirms (as opposed
to 1 confirm) only matters if
they are actively mining and attacking
the chain
TheNewDeal: doesnt propagation
take on
the scale of minutes?
TheNewDeal: I
thought you could just send 2
transactions before a block is mined
mircea_popescu: someone doing
that much hash doesn't need your puny 5kw
tumble drier
TheNewDeal: ok what happens if I have a laundromat and
the washer accept bitcoin. Someone finds out
they can just come and get
two loads for
the price of 1, dry 2 loads for
the price of 1, etc
mircea_popescu: you got a better deal with
this
than with
them putting in us quarters anyway.
mircea_popescu: get out.
they gotta be physically
there
too, it's not worth it
pankkake: do you
think
they will double spend
to buy cheap food? in a physical location?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal at
the size of your purchase you can prollylet
them go on one confirm. who's gonna dblspend for a can of coke
pankkake: link is ok,
thank god for noscript/requestpolicy/etc
TheNewDeal: ok I have a stupid question. What happens if I have
two vending machines
that sit side by side and both accept bitcoin. Will people have
to wait for 6 confirmations
to receive goods, or is
there some other way
to receive
their bitcoin safely?
assbot: F.DERP, A New Bitcoin Short-Only Hedge Fund
Targeting Major Bitcoin Startups
pankkake: or is it only funding nodes ran by
the same guy (but decentralization!)
moiety: davout, it was exactly
the same as facebook but orange and had bitcoin symbols everywhere. i
think it failed so badly,
theytried
to sell it and couldn't even pan it off
moiety: mircea_popescu: a question I have since repeated
tomyself so many
times.
moiety: do yous remember
the failed attampt at a bitcoin facebook?
mircea_popescu: :p remember kitten, one of
the first
things i said
to you was wtf you doing with
the doge
moiety: i'm learning quick
though mircea_popescu :]