641400+ entries in 0.441s
BlueMeanie4: well for as long as you lack
the features i describe,
these contracts will have a very limited market
mircea_popescu: we happen
to be here
to reverse all of it and more, but it's irrelevant which way it goes really. obviously
the cock going in hurts about as much as it hurts going out, so
to speak.
mircea_popescu: the funny part being, of course,
that
they actually DID redesign
the whole universe, and everything you imagine was always fixed and
the case was purely and shamelessly invented
then.
then history rewritten
to support
this inane
theory.
BlueMeanie4: this few weeks was written about with horror by most who lived
through it
BlueMeanie4: some of
these bitcoin people are reminiscint of
the french revolution. for a few weeks
they
thought
they could completely redesign
the whole universe. I believe
they wanted
to change
the number of days in a week.
mircea_popescu: this is like, bitcoin will fuck it up
the ass with a steel girder and everyone has a short and vanishing opportunity
to change sides.
ThickAsThieves: bluemean4 representin
Team Marketoids v. mircea_popescu with
Team Perfect Economoids. Fight!
mircea_popescu: this isn't like... o hey, bitcoin is
trying
to persuade
the old order.
mircea_popescu: "real
tangible facts of how political systems work" indeed.
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 pretend you're some exponent of
the iroquis. everything you said works just as well.
assbot: The Frogs - I'm Sad
The Goat Just Died
Today - YouTube
BlueMeanie4: are we about
to go into
tour de force of rousseuian noble savage
theory
mircea_popescu: kinda like we care about how
the iroquis "state capitol" used
to work.
ThickAsThieves: one
thing i know about finance markets, it's no one really gets
to say how
they work
mircea_popescu: how financial markets used
to work pre bitcoin is purely of academic interest
BlueMeanie4: no, im explaining real
tangible facts of how finance markets work
X-Rob: So I'm digging a
trench
to bypass it
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4
that'd be because you got some ideas you're
trying
to fit
to observed reality
BlueMeanie4: you system as far as i udnerstand it does not allwo for
the
transfer of obligations
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: no,
that 1700 is actually at my house
BlueMeanie4: people market
those kind of collection notes all
the
time
hanbot enjoyed
this "debate"; i call it "let's read
the convo via
the logs and guess what mp's answers will be,
then hit refresh and score ourselves"
mircea_popescu: they have not. just, you never used any math and you never had much
to say about economics.
BlueMeanie4: the basic laws of math and economics have not failed nor have
they been altered
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 well you gotta read
to see
the operable ideas.
mircea_popescu: but one point is important :
the world you know has failed.
this will require a pound of flesh out of everyone involved. whether it comes in
the form of
the intellectual humiliation where you say "we were wrong and
the actual voodoo people at
the
table" and move on, or
the actual physical humiliation
that goes with being on
the defeated side...
BlueMeanie4: just suggestions
that our current system is flawed in some way
BlueMeanie4: ok but i fail
to see any operable ideas here
mircea_popescu: well,
to round
the circle : i find it unfortunate
that so many otherwise intelligent fellows are so fixated on
their various habituations
that
they refuse
to adapt and become useful for
the future.
BlueMeanie4: i find it unfortunate
that so many are bogged down with
these voodoo economic ideas when
they should be building better machinery
to deliver real functions
mircea_popescu: these "financial markets" aren't a single
thing, and
they only work as you describe
them when
they don't actually work.
mircea_popescu: this is fine, but it's a little silly
to push
that argument of familiarity
too far.
mircea_popescu: so look : you can sit in a car, and derive from
the experiene of sitting
there some idea as
to how
the car works.
BlueMeanie4: well i dont really bear
the burden of proof,
these are facts of financial markets as
they exist
BlueMeanie4: a 20 egg note is not worth 20 eggs, yes, it's up
to
the debtor
to MAKE
them worth 20 eggs. see how
this works?
mircea_popescu: so no, it's not a
thing equal
to another
thing, and
they discount each other.
BlueMeanie4: ThickAsTheives- actually
those kind of collection notes have a market
mircea_popescu: Morgan: "Before money or property or anything else. Money cannot buy it...because a man I do not
trust could not get money from me on all
the bonds in Christendom."
mircea_popescu: you are making a mistake jpm warned against. allow me
to quote
the old gentleman.
nubbins`: fun story, was over at my folks' house
this evening and my dad pulled out some old chartered bank notes
BlueMeanie4: USDs are valuable because people, generally,
think
that
the US govt will repay
mircea_popescu: now, you're more welcome
to get burned a few
times if you won't listen and feel entitled
to call
things sophistry.
BlueMeanie4: right so
the margin between
the actual eggs and my risk of actually getting
them is what is
the value of
the note
mircea_popescu: which
they bought because
they
think like you, in spite of me
telling
them not
to.
BlueMeanie4: this sophistry doesnt work on me. its pretty simple really. if i hold a note
that says YOU OWE ME
TWENTY EGGS
mircea_popescu: otherwise, debt notes are older
than coins, have been in use in china since forever.
mircea_popescu: that's how it goes in
the book your learned on.
this is called didacticism :
the sad habit of people
to recreate history in
terms of
their preferred systematic approach.
BlueMeanie4: no it isn't - quite
the opposite using gold or other commodities for money were a feature of primitive societies- you seem
to have it backward
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4
this is like saying vishnu is
the basic
thing giving
the world movement.
BlueMeanie4: debt is
the basic
thing
that gives money substance
BlueMeanie4: i guess you get
to be right until bitcoin fails?
b00lcrap: well
that is reassuring. cuz i have many hungry mouths
to feed
assbot: The problem of
too much money pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
nubbins`: no,
the first one was better :D
b00lcrap: but we have all just been upgrade
to first class.
b00lcrap: well
they
tell me its a sinking shit
b00lcrap: i dont
think we have officially met.
mircea_popescu: they didn't fail because of securitization directly, but nevertheless
they will fail unavoidably for reasons rooted in why
that particular kind of securitization works
that particular way.
BlueMeanie4: while
thats a valid point, i dont
think
they failed BECAUSE of securitization altough
these new methods did destablize
mircea_popescu: go ahead. it ain't happening here, and it won't survive
the decade.
mircea_popescu: hey, you wanna stick
to doing it
that way by all means.
BlueMeanie4: and
the default collateral i can put on
the market
mircea_popescu: no, it's not exactly
the same. hence
the comment above about shorthands,
BlueMeanie4: because
the VALUE of
that RISK doesnt float on
the market
mircea_popescu: hell,
the ether future contract specifically said it will allow assignment even.
mircea_popescu: same principles, of course, but changes
the engineer's life entirely.
mircea_popescu: i do.
the problem is
that you'd like for shorthand
that's accepted in an old, meanwhile abandoned system
to work unioversally.
BlueMeanie4: it means
turning risk into a monetized resource
BlueMeanie4: youve got
the basic contract mechanism, now you need securitizatino
tools
mircea_popescu: but
the reason you can't is because
that's a fucktarded system made by lazy apes
that doesn't work