625800+ entries in 0.352s
bounce: they'd rather hear
themselves pontificate?
moriarty: xmj, and it's hard
to get such people lurking on
the internet :) not impossible, but rare
moriarty: xmj, you get
to
the point much quicker with someone more experienced, more knowledgeable
moriarty: xmj, everybody is at various stages of knowledge, you gain help no matter who you ask along
that spectrum,
the key distinguishing feature
though is rate of absorption
moriarty: xmj, it helps
to have a walking encyclopedia who you can
tap into
xmj: that's how knowledge creation update
transmission etc works.
xmj: moriarty: "standing on
the shoulders of giants"
moriarty: asciilifeform, it used
to be an active area of investigation in
the seventies
xmj: moriarty: people say
that google and peers are bad for you when you really want
to learn
things..
moriarty: asciilifeform, and
they didn't inform you
that hard AI was a largely abandoned endeavour
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess ima publish, save myself
the effort next
time i feel inclined
to explore
teh ircworld.
decimation: asciilifeform: in
the end it doesn't matter if
the gasenwagen is driven by robot/ai or communist bureaucrats
moriarty: bounce, i
think he means build a brain
moriarty: asciilifeform, everybody who ventures into AI informally makes
that exact same mistake
mircea_popescu: i just handed
them
their ass
too, i suspect either a ban or a wambulance coming
moriarty: but
that's just
the ancap bit of me speaking
moriarty: decimation, i never saw
the point in
taxation being mandatory
moriarty: decimation, at least
the latter is voluntary
moriarty: decimation, even below lab
technicians
moriarty: decimation, and graduate researchers pretty much sit at
the bottom of
the food chain
decimation: the former being generally honest enough
to admit
to his scam
moriarty: decimation, and,
then
those who keep
the university running, i.e.
the undergraduates
decimation: I don't distinguish much between
the welfare recipient and
the grant recipient
moriarty: decimation, and
those down
the value chain, i.e.
the grant writer
moriarty: decimation, unfortunately whenever money comes into
the picture, it
tilts
the balance of power in
the favour of
the funder
decimation: moriarty: didn't you perceive
this as a problem, given your previous point about mixing crap with
the good?
moriarty: so i used
things like Prolog, Haskell, Java, C, or even Matlab
bounce: moriarty: missing
the point
though
moriarty: decimation, when i was studying and eventually doing research in AI, we got
to use anything we like
moriarty: decimation, heh
the modern AI researcher uses any language at his disposal
decimation: asciilifeform:
the universities
that moriarty mentions being peopled with
the same bureaucrats seeking grants
moriarty: the benefit of university is underrated,
the constant feedback available ensures you minimise your
time
to develop your skillset sufficiently and deeply for profitable employment
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can readily see a us religious nut sponsor for
that.
moriarty: xmj, without a forum of knowledgeable peers or esteemed academics, you would be hopelessly lost, making lots of mistakes, reading all
the crap
together with
the good stuff, and
taking longer
to self-develop
moriarty: xmj, but freenode is one of
those serendipituous occurence
that i
think is essential
to homeschooling
moriarty: xmj, in university you are supposed
to learn on your own
too
decimation: asciilifeform: one day I hope
to find a modern 'ai researcher' who admits
to have
tried programming in lisp
bounce: you know, social sciences. contemporary economics.
that sort of
thing.
moriarty: in fact
Theil's proposal would fall under xmj's concept of
traps by powers
that be :)
moriarty: but
Thiel's supposition
that people should not bother with formal education and instead open up a company under
the auspices of his seed funding is rather self-serving in my opinion
decimation: ultimately
they are all patrons of usg and its idiotic currency meddling
xmj: i've always been better at learning
things on my own.
moriarty: i
think it was great
that PayPal has made
that clan of people rich, a lot of good
things have come out from
the founders of PayPal
moriarty: i admire and despise
Thiel all at once
moriarty: xmj,
the informal route is filled with potential pitfalls
to make
the same mistakes
decimation: asciilifeform: oh he's one of
Thiel's boys
moriarty: xmj, sure, but let's not discount formal education also as
the path
to avoid mistakes made by saner individuals in
the past
moriarty: i honestly believe
that under different circumstances,
these individuals would have made real progress in society
moriarty: i am sincerely impressed by
the attempts
they have made without formal education
moriarty: at least formally i have worked in
the field of AI and have come across lesswrong in my past
xmj: that'd interest me
too
moriarty: if i were feeling benevolent, i should actually sponsor some of
them for formal education :) but
then neuroscience has something
to say about how intellect not developed before a certain age would have
the door closed on
them at some point
xmj: isn't
that convenient.
moriarty: lesswrong.com
typical profile is someone who has fallen between
the cracks of society so
typically someone without formal education, self-proclaimed didact, home-schooled, etc
moriarty: decimation, economic models are much like scientific models, or any models for
that matter,
they are inapplicable
to reality without an overdose of simplifying assumptions
to linearise what would otherwise be a higher dimensionality reality
decimation: economists
too can be made
to wash windows
moriarty: decimation, but if you are dissatisfied with such simple conclusion, read
that Mandelbrot book :)
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2014 02:07:49; asciilifeform: (lw is another reddit clone
that makes hn, etc. look sane. inhabited by folks
terrified of robo-apocalypse. i was drummed out of lw as a 'future genocidal criminal' for... considering resurrecting doug lenat's 'eurisko.')
moriarty: decimation,
that's a rather simplistic view
moriarty: xmj, so if you have
the street smarts
to not
trust used-car dealers, i hope you do
the same for
the government or powers
that be
xmj: no one
trusts used-car dealers
moriarty: xmj, what i'm saying is, it's impossible
to legislate every aspect of society
to make it as idiotproof as possible
moriarty: xmj, if you can't fend yourself against
the
traps of
the powers
that be, how do you hope
to avoid buying a lemon when faced with a second-hand car dealer
xmj: in redistribution you lose and
texes you pay
moriarty: xmj, but you won't bite
the bait if you had some modicum of intellect
xmj: because by
the
time you start earning income, you lose more
than 100%
to
the state
xmj: no, i mean,
they're incentivized
to stay down
moriarty: xmj,
the
traps are easily detectable were it not for
their inferior intellect
decimation: mircea_popescu:
then don't eat, if deemed shitty in
the subjective opinion of
the bureaucrat of
the day
moriarty: actually socioeconomic experiments are nothing more
than alchemy waiting for sciences
to solidify itself; in like sense, macro policies are
the precursors
to BCIs which would be a far more effective method of
tailoring welfare
to
the individual without any of
the leakages present
today
xmj: there are actually a few
traps setup by
The Powers
That Be
decimation: mircea_popescu: you can't, so you put it on display. your job: wash
the sidewalk