614100+ entries in 0.464s
dionyziz: We're not
trying
to solve every problem.
dionyziz: We're not
trying
to solve
this problem.
dionyziz: But solving
the shipping problem is currently out of
the scope of OpenBazaar.
mircea_popescu: and in being controlling, it'll control. which means it'll shape
the marketplace.
mircea_popescu: brianhoffman well sure, but it doesn't so much matter if it's a meatspace issue or not. what matters is
that it's
the controlling issue
bounce: not all
trades involve items shipped, and where
they do
the users of any system, decentralised or not, basically have
to provide
their own safety. cut-outs and
that sort of
thing. it does put a bit of a damper as
to what is reasonable
to advertise.
mircea_popescu: dionyziz b ecause you're leaking information
through
the shipping.
think of it in crypto
terms, you're using a 8 bit key on an amiga as part of
the process.
dionyziz: I do not see why
this is a necessity.
brianhoffman: well i
think
that mirrors real life rather well. as your “image” becomes larger your activity becomes less indistinguishable from others.
mircea_popescu: at which point you either go
to jail or backstab your users
mircea_popescu: well, for as long as you're small nobody cares
that you're moving contraband back and forth, because it's not meaningfully discernible from
the general noise of
the system
mircea_popescu: i
think you maybe misunderstand how safety is effectually implemented.
brianhoffman: and
those engaging in privacy conscious behavior will know
to protect as best
they can out of band from OpenBazaar
brianhoffman: you do realize
that a large percentage of items shipped are most likely illicit.
this does not stop it from occurring.
mircea_popescu: and since you can't really
tell people what
to do, you will end up in
that conflict whether you want
to or not.
mircea_popescu: i gather. but
the
thing is,
that challenge will unravel whatever model you may build.
brianhoffman: but i don’t believe we’re proposing a solution here at
the moment for
that challenge
brianhoffman: i don’t
think
that is really in scope for OpenBazaar
brianhoffman: well i guess my response at least initially would be are we really
trying
to solve
that issue here...
brianhoffman: are you implying
that
the anonymity is simply
thrown out
the window once you begin shipping purchased items? i’m feeling dense here.
mircea_popescu: dionyziz are you familiar with
the discussion of multicentrality vs decentralisation ?
mircea_popescu: brianhoffman your proposition is
to somehow weld
them
together, but because you can not practically remove
the problem of 1, it'll still revert
to something similar, inevitably.
dionyziz: This is
the main reason we
think bitcoin-otc wot is inadequate.
punkman: that's when I ask you
to GPG sign something
mircea_popescu: brianhoffman no, it's not. looky here, let's model it.
there are 3 items of interest. 1.
the shipping of purchased items ; 2.
the discussion of
trade, ie, merchant and buyer meeting hteir minds ; 3.
the payment for purchases. now,
these 3 can be sorted in any which way. otc for instance sorts it
that 2 is gpg over email or an irc channel, 1 is mail and 3 is
the wot.
dionyziz: In OpenBazaar, our
threat model requires no centralization, so we want users
to be able
to validate
trust directly.
brianhoffman: I
think I see what you’re saying in regards
to reimplementing gpg.
This is a valid point.
dionyziz: Some of
these ideas are detailed in my paper, but keep in mind
that my paper is incomplete and just lays out some of our
thoughts. We are improving on it and
thinking about additional
things.
mircea_popescu: but anyway!
thanks, and dun worry about it, you're not being griled in
the sense of having been a bad boy
dionyziz: You as in, people in
this channel who have worked on
this.
dionyziz: And it's an important asset for
the bitcoin community.
mircea_popescu: you know i've done nothing much re bitcoin otc. it's mostly nanotube's
thing.
dionyziz: As for your question regarding improvements over your bitcoin-otc wot work, I'd like
to first say
that we appreciate
the work you've done.
mircea_popescu: well
that was @ brianhoffman. you, i asked how you aim
to improve
the wot as it is
dionyziz: Regarding your comments on shipping,
this is a different issue which we also have concerns about.
mircea_popescu: dionyziz
that is rather basic, but anyway, much better
than nothing at all.
mircea_popescu: brianhoffman let me restate it. since shipping precludes practical anonimity, it makes sense
to bundle
the
trust required
to maintain pseudonymous identities with
the
trust required
to police
transactions, resulting in
the following cutting of your mayo : centralized
trade with decentralized comm network. which reduces your idea
to reimplementing gpg over email.
dionyziz: mircea_popescu: Yes, I have sent and received some ratings and used
this system
to exachange bitcoin.
brianhoffman: the issue of shipping
ties in nicely with
the discussion about arbitration and
third-parties in
trade
transactions
dionyziz: mircea_popescu: Are you
talking about
the bitcoin-otc wot,
the gpg wot,
the freenet wot, which one exatly?
mircea_popescu: dionyziz well not so much on your ideas whatever
they may be, but moreover, how familiar are you with
the wot as it works and is implemented currently ?
dionyziz: If you
think what we're
trying
to do is impossible or impractical,
this is very important
to us and we want
to know why.
brianhoffman: mircea_popescu did you see dionyziz’ paper
that we have up online? i posted
the link earlier
dionyziz: I'm very interested in hearing
them, especially if you disagree with our proposals.
dionyziz: I heard you guys have some
thoughts on our web-of-trust ideas.
brianhoffman: and also I am not
the guitarist for Deicide lol
assbot: Logged on 06-10-2014 16:47:26; mircea_popescu: "OpenBazaar is an open source project
to create a decentralized network for commerce online—using Bitcoin—that has no fees and cannot be censored."
brianhoffman: ok I’ve got @dionyziz here and I
think he may have some questions for you all
assbot: Ex-Post:
Toronto Bitcoin Expo | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
thickasthieves: there's
this interview with him and hearn where he's just gushing
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i don't recall, do we like j
tucker ? << o mr. sleepyhead?
there's definitely worse muppets out on
the "conference" scene.
pete_dushenski: mebbe ima
take a video of a nekkid chick
takin a picture of it
then approve
that
pete_dushenski: video or a pic or
two
to get people excited about what you've written. In my opinion, it would make your website a little bit more interesting." << lol
these sp4mmers
pete_dushenski: "Everything published was very logical. But, consider
this, what if you were
to create a awesome
title? I ain't suggesting your content is not good., however suppose you added something
that makes people want more? I mean IRC Yeshiva | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski is a little plain. You could glance at Yahoo's front page and see how
they create news
titles
to grab viewers
to open
the links. You might add a
assbot: Investor
Tim Draper Leads SnapCard's $1.5 Million Seed Round
kakobrekla: so even if you unrate/negrate you can not down
that person, not cause of cache but cause
they self upped
assbot: Logged on 06-10-2014 03:17:27; ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: can we do something about
this rating lag?
mircea_popescu: then you declare you're innocent, a week later
they let you go because it was a mistake and
there you go,
two extra points. maybe
three.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 it's simple, have some people friendly in
the press over at your hotel, have a policeman come and arrest you and confiscate a huge bundle of flour.
mircea_popescu: yeah looks like
they want
to set you up for a heel role.
indiancandy1: no not really camera only ffocused on negative
things
mircea_popescu: lol and fakekissing
the guy ? ok,
this was entertaining
mircea_popescu: tsk, pushing up your
tits and being all bashful about your hip
tattoo ?
bounce: senile
tremor on
the enter key?
mircea_popescu: (reason being
that
they proly learned english from 70yo little old ladies)
mircea_popescu: btw, dun call people dear in english. it's
this 70 year old grandma
thing
to do, and for some reason all indian camgirls do it.
bounce: what a cute photo. until you realise how it was probably
taken.
pete_dushenski: Vexual:
this ones a newspaper, blogs are for little girls << orly?
mircea_popescu: there's a coupla death metal bass players, brothers, by
that name
thickasthieves: would it be absurd for me
to suggest
that bitcoin volatility has a base shape, which appears as fractals and distorts according
to current
trend? sorta like an elliot wave or bubble pattern? something like
the shape of
the algorithm as averaged by combinining all
trade bots and human behavior?