612500+ entries in 0.364s
go1111111: so you're saying it's more like "I'm going
to stop mining now because maybe in 10 years mining will be unprofitable, depending on
the
trajectory of computer resource costs"
thestringpuller: lets
take a look at
top and see what bitcoind is consuming
Apocalyptic: for one it removes
the upper linear bound on
the storage space needed
to store
the whole chain
nubbins`: "my cpu, disk space, bandwidth are still orders of magnitude more
than what
this requires... better pull
the plug over ideological reasons"
nubbins`: why in
the fuck would someone
turn off
their node over a block size increase?
nubbins`: Apocalyptic i'm
trying
to figure out why everyone has
their dicks in a knot about it. nobody seems
to know.
thestringpuller: i'm almost certain if you increase
the blocksize
to great
too soon, full nodes will drop off...
Apocalyptic: nubbins`, you're actually in favour of
the increase ?
chetty: internet is pretty darn good most places, only place I ever had much of an issue
the deserts of Egypt
nubbins`: so
to run a full node, you'd be expected
to dick around with software a little bit and have a first-world internet connection
go1111111: most of
the burden now is
that it's very cumbersome, not
that
the resources required are expensive
nubbins`: BingoBoingo, how long did it
take you
to start a node from scratch as of
this summer?
thestringpuller: starting a full node as of now isn't
trivial. ask BingoBoingo how long it
took
to start one from scratch as of
this summer.
thestringpuller: very possibly, but
that still doesn't solve
the issue of forcing more burden on
the full nodes.
go1111111: thestringpuller: Bitcoin still could be extremely decentralized if full nodes were limited
to 1st world countries
nubbins`: thestringpuller: you want
to stop it?
thestringpuller: So you want
to centralize all
the full nodes
to first world countries?
nubbins`: note
that usa is not a first world country
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: It's an assumption Gavin
takes into account
thestringpuller: he's
talking about block size going up 50% a year because of bandwidth "doubling" every year
nubbins`: nobody's
talking about average internet speed increasing by 50% a year
thestringpuller: go1111111: you can do
that without forcing centralization due
to resource scarcity...
nubbins`: you're just
throwing random numbers
together in a sentence
thestringpuller: so average bandwidth in US (where Gavin is based) is 10Mbit. An incearse of .5 per year is like what 15 next
then 22.5 after
that etc etc
go1111111: thestringpuller: you're asking "why up 50% a year?". my reply directly addressed
that. Gavin has a different idea of where he wants Bitcoin
to go, and it requires lots of
transaction processing capability
Apocalyptic: but if it was able
to do a lot more, it'd be pretty awesome // what is it with people always wanting
the same
thing
to "do a lot more" ?
Apocalyptic: go1111111, doing 1
thing pretty good is plenty enough
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: okay, so when people say "bandwidth is
the
thing
to be concerned about", do
they have numbers in mind or is just a wank?
go1111111: thestringpuller: many people see
the potential for Bitcoin
to replace much of
the global financial infrastructure. i know people in
this channel prefer Bitcoin
to be a gold-replacement, but if it was able
to do a lot more, it'd be pretty awesome
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Gavin hasn't proposed a hard number where he wants
to start 50% annual increases from.
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> if you want a
tx
to get in
the block add a fucking fee and pay for
the nice
thing you've been given <<
This
thestringpuller: if you want a
tx
to get in
the block add a fucking fee and pay for
the nice
thing you've been given
nubbins`: how about some hard numbers? what sort of bandwidth are you guys
talking about?
thestringpuller: so
then why up 50% a year and not leave
the block size alone?
go1111111: BingoBoingo: yes, bandwidth is
the
thing
to be genuinely concerned about
thestringpuller: the higher bandwidth necessary
to run a full node over
time
T will force
the centralization of nodes
nubbins`: what specifically is
the issue
go1111111: regarding CPU power,
the ASICS
that are doing
the hashing are not
the same resource
that would add a
transaction. a general CPU would be doing
that, which would otherwise be sitting idle
go1111111: thestringpuller: Gavin surely knows
that it adds some burden on full nodes, but
the point is
that it's a
trivial amount. engineering is about
tradeoffs and
the
thing being
traded off against increasing
the block size is miniscule
thestringpuller: nubbins`: not yet I gotta go
to
the local office
today once I feel like not being lazy and get some real clothes on.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 345.57, Best ask: 345.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.37000, Last
trade: 345.57, 24 hour volume: 26823.95596431, 24 hour low: 325.79, 24 hour high: 354.18, 24 hour vwap: 339.577546866
pete_dushenski: very much like a magician who distracts
the crowd with a joke or a pretty lady while
the
trap door opens.
mthreat: mircea_popescu: in case you want
to confront him about bitcoin posts on
the forum (that seemed
to be filtered at one point)
thestringpuller: How does
the chief scientist not realize increasing block size increases burden on full nodes?
thestringpuller: If you are just
trolling,
then kudos, you got my attention for about
three minutes."
thestringpuller: You do know
that no matter how large
the block, only
the 80-byte block header is hashed?
nubbins`: "they really licensed
the shit out of
that logo"
nubbins`: neat indeed. pretty fuckin costly for 1oz of silver in a plastic box
tho
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: kids active
today grew up in a world of computer game word filters << different is bad and not nice and
trolling and mysogyracist! poor fucking kids...
nubbins`: minted by -- no kidding --
the country of Niue
nubbins`: not available
to public yet, gotta screenshot
nubbins`: speaking of all 4 sets,
the mint sent me an email
mircea_popescu: shit my client automatically expands wikiwhale
to gmaxwell's girlfriend ;/
mircea_popescu: "i'm
too lazy
to go out and pick something up so i'ma
troll livejournal for gmaxwell's girlfriend" ?
mircea_popescu: isn;'t
the sloth merely "if i could be bothered
to stand up" ?
mircea_popescu: this in stark opposition with
thought, where simply spending
time doing addition does not automatically qualify one for analysis say
mircea_popescu: except
they're not modes of
thought,
they're modes of feeling.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so in
the end, it
turns out you did know it, just, didn't realise how stupid
the average derp is ?
mircea_popescu: o look, ed went
to shit meanwhile. anyway,
they had a decent article on
this power word : real name
thing, a decade ago
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: nubbins`
that's because you have canadiancare, which is really just nationalised obamacare. you're socialists over
there, not like
the
true capitalists down south.
that's why. << better
this way. both losses and profits are socialized unlike
tbtf american cos.
mircea_popescu: and since
the result of libertard "education" is an unprecedented headcount of illiterate cattle all over
the west...
assbot: Have You Ever Been
Too High
to Lie?
mircea_popescu: there's
this innate "fear", i suppose, among
the primitive, illiterate hordes as
to
the magical power of names.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you 'dox' people unless
there's dirt ? <<
there's a lot you don't know.
assbot: How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain’t Gonna Increase Any
Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
mats_cd03: doxing someone can be devastating if
they have assets.
mats_cd03: and
then force
that individual
to engage in legal proceedings or whathaveyou
mats_cd03: dox can make it feasible
to dump piles of e.g. office supplies
mats_cd03: some corporations are also known
to allow purchase orders with charge on delivery
mats_cd03: as well as vulnerability
to
things like swatting