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604500+ entries in 0.391s
mircea_popescu: whatever it is, he ain't it. that's why people object. not because he's black, and not just because he's stupid.
mircea_popescu: well that's the extend of the discussion. what's stopping mr "nobel prize" from being it ?
mircea_popescu: it happens. all that's needed is... leadership.
mircea_popescu: all the music that didn't fit notation, developed at huge cost of time during times of frequent famine ... gone
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and that not a single line of code ever written, from babbage to today, can be used as is - or even with mild combing. <<< all the skills needed to drive carriages, honed at the significant expense of sweat and often blood by the original wells fargo corporation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform try again tomorro!
mircea_popescu: <bounce> which requires having something to say, an idea of where we are and where we should be going, organise how we're going to get there <<< also don't neglect the ever essential part that someone somewhere may call you a cult leader!
bounce: it's a bit morisette on the scale of irony though
mircea_popescu: bounce kinda the irony of the situation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude. her fuhrer had people do a) rocketry. b) airplanes powered by hydrazine ; c) rommel in africa looking for the holy grail
asciilifeform: and that not a single line of code ever written, from babbage to today, can be used as is - or even with mild combing.
asciilifeform: and we sit down for tea, and i tell him we have to use... ternary
mircea_popescu: bounce duh. yes, to have leadership one requires leadership.
asciilifeform: it's not like convincing folks to drink 'cyanide koolaid' - it's like convincing them to drink sulfuric acid. (who? management specifically. of any nation.)
mircea_popescu: from the chinese first of all.
bounce: which requires having something to say, an idea of where we are and where we should be going, organise how we're going to get there
mircea_popescu: if the obola was out there, "by the end of this decade we will have actually functional computers, this shit is ridiculous"
asciilifeform: what i was suggesting is, that it is very difficult (not impossible, but close to it) to get people to shake off design-space constraints when it jumps costs by orders of magnitude.
mircea_popescu: it'd definitely fix the us problem, which is a purely credibility problem.
bounce: you're talking about the "have a vision" part
mircea_popescu: to say "by the end of the decade - man on moon" is substantially different from "hey, we're spending some moneys on some things"
mircea_popescu: the motherfucking point of leadership is to provide... leadership. wow!
mircea_popescu: if you ask the us, it does "plenty of investment" today too.
mircea_popescu: not my point, the investmentr
asciilifeform: just - in well-understood, fungible things.
asciilifeform: plenty of tech investment there, though
mircea_popescu: these may be arguments, maybe, but they're not arguments for your side here.
mircea_popescu: ww1, the war notoriously named by gallup poll ?
asciilifeform: in which precisely no one took interest in death rays.
mircea_popescu: well how is this an argument for oyu ?
asciilifeform: death ray becomes a byword for implausible fictional tech.
mircea_popescu: what was the public comitment at the time of tesla ?
asciilifeform: he retires to feed pigeons, if lucky
asciilifeform: ok we're on the same page. so we know how it ends.
asciilifeform: as in, complete blueprints, drawn up b/w tractor runs
mircea_popescu: 's call him tesla.
mircea_popescu: western world has nobdy capable of comitment today
asciilifeform: picture if, instead of zhukov, there was this kid who knew how to build death ray.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary. the way it worked was that the germans attacked, stalin commited, and a zhukov emerged.
asciilifeform: not surprised if nobody agrees - i think i've yet to meet anyone who does (other, than, possibly, chuck moore, and i haven't asked him in person - only read him)
mircea_popescu: more importantly : the war didn't work like, one day there was a zhukov, and he went hey, what if we had the germans attack us, so they i could be really cool ?
asciilifeform: my argument, for many years, is, roughly 'it has to fit in a head.'
mircea_popescu: but we're not discussing the job of being zhukov
mircea_popescu: so... everything except the problem at hand ?
mircea_popescu: let's try the great patriotic war, maybe that's a better knob. so... is that also a "doesn't decompose" sort of task ?
mircea_popescu: something's not getting through here./
asciilifeform: number of hours in the clock?
mircea_popescu: who's to stop you.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't you just forget about it, hit the bottle, and then write a proper fucking thing ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, suppose your job for the next ten years, and you know this, now, is to read 29 different turds and report.
asciilifeform: how i know? my estimation, three people who can crap out the answer. one's a schizophrenic, far gone, other's me, who works 3 jobs, and the third is probably too old already.
mircea_popescu: the only reason it even exists atm is because nobody's forcing anyone to read it.
mircea_popescu: no it won't. how long do you think people can spend reading shitty c/c++ tcp/ip implementations before they give up their idiocy like the plague ?
mircea_popescu: anything as long as it's not throwing more pigs around.
asciilifeform: what if it takes actual resources, for example.
asciilifeform: does it need to be gift-wrapped for the taking?
asciilifeform: and it might be important to ask, what qualifies as 'having' the better solution
mircea_popescu: it provides good fucking reasons for people to come up with solutions, and right now.
mircea_popescu: people start fucking listening to people who have better solutions.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand the network effects. once the entire fucking country is engrossed in throwing chattel around,
bounce: every time one flies out you conclude you're safe now
asciilifeform: how do i know that my arse does not contain monkeys?
mircea_popescu: o no ? how do you know that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that understanding is built on reports.
asciilifeform: one does not take flight by ordering every horse, ox, pig in the empire, assessed for suitability for flight
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller is the watchdog of democracy over here.
thestringpuller: is the dns repropagating or something?
asciilifeform: one that, can, say, exert thrust vertically, for starters
asciilifeform: well, aside from wizards, you fly by understanding that you need a vehicle other than oxcarts
thestringpuller: ;;isup trilema.com
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? anecdotic agreement by wizard x with wizard y is not how you fly to the moon.
asciilifeform: and the ashes buried in chernoble.
asciilifeform: fly to the moon by stacking chairs, yes.
mircea_popescu: it has to be reviewed.
asciilifeform: we're back to reviewing c crud again.
mircea_popescu: how do you think my intel works ?
mircea_popescu: "i want a complete report on every tcp/ip implementation out there. by hand. line by line comparison of all versions ever made"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o yes it does. let's take the smallest part of it.
mircea_popescu: so does this.
bounce: plenty people to do work in this world
asciilifeform: in that it decomposes into work for an army of people
asciilifeform: my point was that 'moonshot' is fundamentally different from problem at hand
mircea_popescu: that is the royal superbity.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, that's why the entire "press" derped and ocasionally still derps about kennedy = us royalty. becauise that guy was the last us president to go "fuck you, do something useful with your time"
mircea_popescu: my words! they has been taken out of context! and given unforeseen boners!
mircea_popescu: fucking kennedy. once it's done it's trivial.
mircea_popescu: yes, itis. but it didn't USE TO BE
asciilifeform: moon, incidentally, is trivial in comparison.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, know the moon painting joke ?
mircea_popescu: if they had, the soviets would still be a thing, painting the moon red
bounce: some bezzle, gather together the people that can do the block-building, ship'em off to shenzen, open-source the results
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not that dude. when they wanted to send a guy to the moon they didn't give gm "the contract"
asciilifeform: i shit thee not, ms winblows is one of the two (afaik) nsa-approved os.
bounce: don't need a war either. just bring together the means.
asciilifeform: and we know the rest.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they had one. microshit won the contract.
mircea_popescu: unlike the foregoing, these ARENT rules of the fucking world.
mircea_popescu: fuck that shit. war on drugs, poverty, people far away that don't like us and think we're stupid...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no need for trillion. 10^7 would suffice - but it'd have to be spent on doubleplusungood crimethinkers, and that's a no-go.
mircea_popescu: try that, see who hates you then. but no, they';ve tried "everything" : banged head on wall, sat on hot stove, kicked shin against all corners.... nothing in this house works