log☇︎
554400+ entries in 0.365s
thestringpuller: 22:13 <+asciilifeform> i have said before that an official usg altcoin is
thestringpuller: now it seems the popularity contest is "the thing"
thestringpuller: but in all srsns, i thought the "popularity contest" died out by the end of high school
asciilifeform: all vermin envy the virus.
asciilifeform: from the standpoint of vermin - yes, valuable
thestringpuller: i never understood when going viral became the equivalent of becoming valuable...
danielpbarron: although 2014 might have put an end to that
danielpbarron: i don't think they are so rational; i suspect it has more to do with "going viral" like a clever youtube video, and having been in on it before it was trendy
thestringpuller: starving marvin in kenya buys a bitcoin with his 50000 kenyan shillings he saved up over the course of 5 years...
thestringpuller: Which is perverted thinking at best.
asciilifeform: i can easily picture an 'atomic war' where every btc which usg has at some point begged, borrowed, stole, or can prevail upon a vassal to give up control of - will be placed on market in a 'last hurrah'
thestringpuller: i can only imagine poor peon running up stream trying to keep water wheel moving
asciilifeform: i'm not seeing any serious evidence of 'long-term' thinking on usg's part.
thestringpuller: It's still non-trivial effort tho, to run long term
danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG?
thestringpuller: But isn't this like someone trying to power a water wheel by simply running up stream with buckets of water they collect downstream?
asciilifeform: not on their own. (of the fork)
asciilifeform: seems clear that they'll pour the water on the other side.
thestringpuller: Spend X money to build hoover dam and it explodes less than a year while runnign?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I do not see how anyone will contribute to usgavincoin when Buterin's waterfall explodes right after inception.
asciilifeform: you will have to ask the fellow who thought it up
thestringpuller: ofc, but USG coin that is used to also do what? annoy us out of our money like some comcast nonsenese?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gavincoin is not made to replace usd, but to bleed bitcoin
thestringpuller: yet we'll still pay taxes in bezzles?
asciilifeform: i have said before that an official usg altcoin is inevitable.
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i think the hardfork drama is fundamentally seeing split, or cold war in bitcoin
danielpbarron: what with all the hard fork drama, i'd say anything that can be kept centralized should probably remain centralized
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user aethero: Level 1: -1, Level 2: 0 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=aethero | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=aethero | Rated since: Wed May 2 19:24:52 2012
thestringpuller: he sold shares in non existant broker bitcoin selling thing compan
thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap
danielpbarron: the joke in otc is "Smooth TM"
asciilifeform: then proceeds to sell, e.g., nonexisting cars.
asciilifeform: which they build up through trivial deals << aha. this is actually an age-old plague on 'ebay' and the like.
thestringpuller: you only have one to trade.
thestringpuller: isn't this classic dilemma of selling soul for some benefit/value
asciilifeform: but baking tradeability in as a matter of course - is another thing
danielpbarron: of course it's disastrous; it's like giving the -otc folk power based on their total rating score (which they build up through trivial deals)
asciilifeform: in point of fact, even our system of reputation (wot) is theoretically 'tradeable', in that somebody could - in principle - sell his privkey to satan
thestringpuller: or maybe everyone is a puppet of some sort. that's a little beyond me tho
thestringpuller: ah. i understand your viewpoint tho.
asciilifeform: perhaps i'm just thick.
asciilifeform: the 'tradeable reputation' thing sounds disastrous.
asciilifeform: and must be dealt with through same mechanisms.
asciilifeform: the basic idea is that meat puppets are not in any fundamental way different from other types of puppet.
thestringpuller: how does that prevent democracy? (a sybil attack)?
thestringpuller: care to elaborate sir asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: i'm not averse to seeing actual solutions to 'decentralized xxxxx,' but they inevitably fall short re: 'democracy-proofing'
danielpbarron: decentralized bitbet like counterparty is decentralized mpex; just replaces the infrastructure (with something worse)
thestringpuller: danielpbarron is in party. regenerate 5 hp per turn. :D
asciilifeform: 'A key feature of Augur is tradeable Reputation. The total amount of Reputation is a fixed quantity, determined upon the launch of Augur. Holding Reputation entitles its owner to report on the outcomes of events, after the events occur. Reputation tokens are similar in other respects to Bitcoins: they are divisible to eight decimal places, they are accounted for by summing over unspent transaction outputs, and they can be sent
thestringpuller: but that's what oracles are for
danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no
asciilifeform: this is assuming that we have a reasonably certain copy of his pubkey pre-dating the events. which, iirc, we do.
asciilifeform: he could easily, if he wished, demonstrate what the genuine material was, and what has been doctored or made up wholesale.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you find it interesting that, despite the legend of snowden having used gpg, we have no signatures from him pertaining to any of the material ?
asciilifeform would like to see the -other- slide deck.
asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before)
asciilifeform: in my diseased mind, the parsimonious hypothesis is that there is actually an nsa where that deck was genuinely crapped out by earnest monkeys who believe every word.
asciilifeform: who, by all indications, was swallowed some time ago.
asciilifeform: if that slide deck is genuine, i've a bridge to sell.
undata: I'll stop worrying when it automatically opts me back into location history tracking
undata: asciilifeform: apparently this google device on my desk is impenetrable. who knew
asciilifeform: seems like pretty obvious case thereof.
kakobrekla does the sexygingers dance
mircea_popescu: i know for a fact the usg did not know what was in the leaks until their press agents told em
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point is that gpg was widely used for the snowden leaks. this indicates that a major player trusted it, and was right in so doing ; and suggests a major target for that reason alone.
mircea_popescu: artifexd it's not a strict thing, more like a general consideration. i doubt they managed to react fast enough to do much to 4.14
asciilifeform: there is always the option of actually studying the changelog.
artifexd: I believe the point is that Snowden didn't say gpg was compromised. However it could have been compromised since he left. Only mircea_popescu knows mircea_popescu's motivation for that spec though.
kakobrekla: hows that ?
artifexd: Snowden worked at the NSA until June 2013. GPG 1.4.13 was committed on 2012-12-20. GPG 1.4.14 was committed on 2013-07-25.d
kakobrekla: updated the welcome message (took out gribble part) and removed ddos warning , i think its gone again?
BingoBoingo: ^ And on that note I'm headed out for a bit.
mircea_popescu: so ima send a btc to assbot's 1B6NP9eb4RKy9tRrXYCJnNcenZkrt5Q2gb
kakobrekla: still open to changes if needs be.
kakobrekla: but then i forgot to ask wtf am i to do.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:03:56; asciilifeform: trust is simply an obsolete, pre-scientific word.
kakobrekla: btw this line kept going through my head while coding
kakobrekla: i dared to manually alter source of your rating here http://w.b-a.link/user/assbot
asciilifeform: vaguely credible evidence that usg puts to use ecc internally, but no suggestion of with what curves.
asciilifeform: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2013-November/018670.html << somehow missed this
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development. << lemme catch up on what the news is and I'll hammer something out.
mircea_popescu: perhaps with some awk thrown in
kakobrekla: o wait i have to encrypt those.
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for assbot from 1 to 10 with note: Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla totallyput a \n after otps
assbot: You rated user assbot on 12-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Nice ass & face bot..
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
asciilifeform: or is that how it already works, nm.
asciilifeform: if i want to change keys, i should have to specifically sign a message to that effect.
asciilifeform: the changekey thing leaves something to be desired.
danielpbarron: i figured that was why you always logged out when not chatting
cazalla: anyway.. shower time and then to play host and patriarch, bbl
danielpbarron: if i'm session authed with gribble and someone hacks my irc, they can change my key
cazalla: not really, these 20 odd people are going to mess up my clean home :\
mircea_popescu: cazalla even more yours then!
mircea_popescu: gribble does too neh ?
cazalla: i have birthday guests in the next 30m so if BingoBoingo can otherwise i'll catch up on logs this evening and write up whatever it is that needs doing