log☇︎
519800+ entries in 0.33s
nubbins`: "As well as targeting the iPhone and iPad directly, the CIA also claims to have developed a poisoned version of Xcode, the software development tool used by app developers to create the apps sold through Apple's hugely successful App Store. It is unclear how the CIA managed to get developers to use the poisoned version of Xcode, but it would have allowed the CIA install backdoors into any apps created using their version."
jurov: yes, that. but it is fully parallel comparison really doable on 2D silicon?
asciilifeform: !s TWINKLE
asciilifeform: there is no physical/electrical reason why it can't worh the other way
asciilifeform: have to go through all $maxint of it and ask, ask, ask...
asciilifeform: jurov: think about how you can't 'ask' every machine word in your ram simultaneously whether it 'equals such-and-such'
jurov: the human memory is content addressable. computers are very poor at that
mircea_popescu: ok that's maybe your best analogy to date.
asciilifeform: removing bricks from on top another brick, will not make the latter a faster runner...
asciilifeform: like strapping weights to a runner
asciilifeform: it's only true in the opposite
mircea_popescu: minus the last sentence.
asciilifeform: ^ will sign under every word of that
asciilifeform: y is, the more intelligent/productive you can be.'
asciilifeform: 'What’s the real difference between having a type signature in your short-term memory or prominently displayed in your second monitor? What’s the real difference between writing a comment in your mind or touch-typing it as fast as you create it? Just some speed. Just some time. And the more visible that type signature is, the faster you can type out that comment, the larger your ‘memory’ gets. And the larger your memor
jurov: ^ yes, that i meant by "feeble attempts" to present nontext information
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't start with pharma, freud was closer to a fraud than anything. and all the way back.
mircea_popescu: most of the "mind science" is pure gunk, ftr.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, my articles are generally preformed and i just tyoe them out.
asciilifeform: the original '7' thing was re: short-term memory and juggling arbitrary symbols as strings
jurov: i have seen you to mangle several names for example
jurov: but not as text!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: likely thinking of a different 'store'
mircea_popescu: jurov you know this is nonsense. i store thousands of items.
asciilifeform: i promised yesterday to say why i quit the ibm green phosphour terminal; this was why
jurov: so why it not possivble to feed these more directly to the brain?
adlai: 7 is some average (mode?) though, rather than a neurological law.
jurov: i'm trying to get at that... you have to convert text into some internal representation in order to store more thasn 7 items
asciilifeform: because one encounters sometimes more than 7 levels of nesting
jurov: and mnemonics is all about replacing the stuff eith rememberable *visual* interpretation
asciilifeform: i've seen it trotted out as an argument that it is impossible to program in common lisp
asciilifeform: i think he was speaking of the 7 levels of stack thing
mircea_popescu: there's no understanding involved in mashing the bits together. i also teach cooking by example only.
jurov: which it the core of the problem
adlai sees a surprising parallel between processing a long string of characters and the von neumann approach to executing a linear sequence instructions referring an array of memory...
jurov: there are cases linguistic processor may require storage of more than 7 items
asciilifeform: when you teach the pets to reassemble kalash, will it be visually (tactile!) or verbally ?
mircea_popescu: the more important point here was if you're somehow going to leverage the visual processor to think with, rather than whether it sometimes saves representative space for the linguistic processor to conveniently symbolize.
asciilifeform: human languages as a class aren't even automatically unambiguous structurewise, and to hammer them into this shape results in the kind of verbiage that led people to invent 'squigglies' in the first place.
asciilifeform: or simply to the fact that straight line of alphabet yes, can unambiguously describe everything. but it takes titanic space for a large class of concepts
mircea_popescu: (/me could have been deformed by years of insisting pets verbalize as part of their education)
mircea_popescu: the very general case where it's easier to show me than to tell me reduces to pr0n.
asciilifeform: let's suppose they weren't implicit.
asciilifeform: in this problem!
asciilifeform: and what of the bounds ?
asciilifeform: there is a reason why newton and leibniz both came up with new symbols for this example
asciilifeform: forces you to demunge it in your head
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: simple mapping to the word brutally linearizes the expression
asciilifeform: http://www.tutapoint.com/kcimages/TripleIntegraParaboloidPlate_.jpg << pulled out of the aether arbitrarily for folks who had too many years from school
mircea_popescu: well that's your point, but notrly what was discussed. a simple mapping from that to "integral" and problem solved.
asciilifeform: but used 'weird symbols' not found on my keyboard, was the point
asciilifeform: it isn't nonverbal in the sense of what geometers liked to do
mircea_popescu: i still dunno why you think the current notation is somehow nonverbal.
asciilifeform: i said triple
mircea_popescu: trivial to write integrals in plain language, what.
asciilifeform: but going back to mathematical notation for a spell - let's write, e.g., a gnarly triple integral, in plain humanlang.
mircea_popescu: well actually, under the "least bugs in code" criteria, the best programming was done 1100ad - 1700ad.
asciilifeform: batch programmers typically never even saw the machine...
asciilifeform: because that was surely the ultimate 'derp zapper'
asciilifeform: (mathematically - in 'batch mode' - yes. usably in real time - no)
asciilifeform: some things -can't- be emulated usably
asciilifeform: and one that breaks, in practice, the turing thesis
asciilifeform: but perhaps the basic idea is clear
asciilifeform: to explain this in usable detail would take a while
asciilifeform: adlai: if you're curious, i quit the emulator when i realized that even the text output absolutely trivial on a dataflow machine cannot be rendered in real time on a von neumann box (simply attach dependency graph to each rectangle of video buffer ram)
mircea_popescu: well... chicks not having two cunts certainly has made it so we don't have two penises, amirite ?
adlai: in this case, the problem is that limitations push upwards
asciilifeform: the basic idea was known to the ancients as 'spoonfull of shit in a barrel of honey'
asciilifeform: adlai: if i could choose just one small idea from my entire set of writings to survive, it would be that 'abstractions push up'
adlai: that's nice, for the shelf
adlai remains silent, to leave some doubt
adlai: until then, i'm here
asciilifeform: not that one.
adlai: eh, the information in a video can be reliably conveyed through a transcript
asciilifeform: because thing wasn't just some idiot talking, but a film of the machine in use
asciilifeform: kakobrekla offered that time
assbot: Loper OS » Kalman Reti, the Last Symbolics Developer, Speaks of Lisp Machines. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQPvJ8 )
mircea_popescu: wait, we do that ?!
asciilifeform: adlai: but the original google video was censored
asciilifeform: adlai: it used to be a link to my site
asciilifeform: now all of this probably plays into mircea_popescu's thesis, because it turns out that the main use of graphical bitmaps in a 'symbolics' box or in my emacs is to better shovel text around
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well then that's all i got, because i've never spent considerable enough time with one to say anything cogent.
mircea_popescu: no it didn't. modern mathematics began once they gave up the "mysticism" and "unexpressible" and "obvious" visual/intuitive nonsense and started putting everything in words.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no dice. spent as little time as did with box because a good chunk of it is replicated in my modern 'emacs' - with which i've made just about everything in my adult life
asciilifeform: or for that matter mathematical symbols. modern mathematics -began- when they switched from naked words to the occasional piece of graphical 'garbage'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i will use your own body to defeat you! how long did you spent with the box, and how much did you make in that time ?
asciilifeform: but pray tell what were the 'timewasters' on a 'symbolics' box ?
asciilifeform: i understand the appeal of 'this is the fucking army, you will paint the snow white until your fucking beg'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a simple restriction on volume.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't << why not goose quill pen, then
adlai: i've not yet encountered something which worked better for me than text, but i'm not sold on it being the global maximum, short of sticking wires in the brain
mircea_popescu: particularly bad example too, quicksort is like seven lines forty words.
adlai proposes nothing, just dumps links in the logs
mircea_popescu: adlai you're not seriously proposing innovative pagination turns text into "graphical" do you ?
mircea_popescu: but that said, computers are still for pronz.
mircea_popescu: it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't. exactly the opposite service of a powerpoint presentation.
mircea_popescu: more like, "x*y field terminal is great for cutting out timewasters"
jurov: the original discussion was that having X*Y fixed terminal is sufficient for every intellectual endeavor
mircea_popescu: to be fair, i loved the "visual equalizer" in whatever program first played mp3s on 386s, single session. and obviously computers are for pronz.
jurov: egypt prospered thousands of yeats with *very* augmented text