512100+ entries in 0.335s
nubbins`: now you're
talking about electric anthills
Adlai: not if he doesn't
touch
the winnings
mircea_popescu: Adlai are you discussing rule of law or rule of
thugs ?
nubbins`: so
then why don't we just ask mp
to create a dummy bet page, and list
tim draper's stash as
the output?
Adlai: ie,
the information is
there, should somebody wish
to act on it
Adlai: the "this is just
text on a betting website" doesn't get
the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus
trinque: RagnarDanneskjol |
trinque - i am occasionally using
the nick for continued development on punks ver. << no problemo; deedbot- works for me
nubbins`: so let's go back
to unwelcome money
mircea_popescu: (pls do not lalala-ignore my celestial
teapot, it
triggers me)
Adlai: there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up
together as "taint" so let's stop using
that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"
nubbins`: then you're just
trusting
the word of some guy who runs a website.
nubbins`: and if
there's nothing on
the blockchain
to link
them
nubbins`: there's nothing on
the blockchain
to link
the
two addresses
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt
that after he ignored
the "if one wins now you've gotta
taint 2x as manby btc, if
the other wins you lost
track." bit he's in a position
to grok
this one, but hey.
nubbins`: i could just create a static copy of bitbet w/ a web crawler and create all
the "links" i want
nubbins`: so now you're left with... some random betting website
that says
the
two addresses are owned by
the same entity, with no further evidence
to back it up
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin
to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1MYBhlj )
nubbins`: here's
the link between
the
two:
nubbins`: examine
the first "no" bet, which won 0.05280995 btc
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin
to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1MYAYXH )
nubbins`: perhaps i can explain
this succinctly, as i had
this same convo some
time ago
mircea_popescu: i understand what you are saying, and i also understand why it's stupid. you have
the option
to pretend like you don't see it, or not. nothing i can do
thar.
mircea_popescu: the "signing history" is entirely meaningless.
the
TOTAL information it conveys is already conveyed, and spent.
there is NO MORE in
there, at all, nothing whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: uniquely among dumb implementation of "smart contracts",
this doesn't even involve
the actual parties
to
the
txn, but
third parties.
Adlai: this has nothing
to do with it
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 21:32:58; fluffypony: "release
the money
to mircea_popescu if I send
the money
to mircea_popescu" is about
the sum
total of it
Adlai: it's much more complicated
than a single number, same as you can't scalarize "trust" - but
taint as i've defined it exists, in
the blockchain - outside of
the mind.
Adlai: blockchain.info pander
to idiots by misrepresenting
this as
taint(address1,address2) = percentage
Adlai: a better word for
this could be "signing history", but whatever it is, it exists. you can ask what
the history of any utxo is, and you get a graph of signatures
Adlai: ok, what i'm calling "taint" is
the
tree constructed by recursively collecting
the inputs
that led in
to each utxo
Adlai: do we agree
that utxos exist?
mircea_popescu: in
that fingerprints are on
the bill, and
taint is in
the mind, wholly imagined.
Adlai: no. you're confusing between value in
the minds of people holding a bill, and fingerprints on its surface. one exists in
the mind,
the other is evidence. it could be misleading evidence, but it is
there.
mircea_popescu: like any other stereotype, like
the nigger
thief/rapist,
the dumb woman,
the jew cooking christian children etc, it "exists" in
the minds of
the stupid,
mircea_popescu: yes, some idiots have
trouble with reality, replace it with neurosis.
this
to
the detriment of
them and anyone
trusting
them.
Adlai: but whether or not it's meaningful
to a specific incident, it still exists
Adlai: taint in as meaningful as
the person you're
trying
to do business with
thinks it is
mircea_popescu: but really,
the notion of
taint is only recurring because people are stupid, and do not wish
to
think. otherwise,
taint is meaningless.
mircea_popescu: Adlai didja eat dumb
this morning ? i put 100 btc on one side, of your
taint, and 100 btc on
the other side, you don't know about. if one wins now you've gotta
taint 2x as manby btc, if
the other wins you lost
track.
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of "lalala
taint doesn't exit".
taint exists exactly as much and exactly for
the reasons god "exists"
Adlai: then
the idiot using a betting site as a
tumbler, got what
they deserved
mircea_popescu: address A with your "taint" may lose
to address B. what now ?
mircea_popescu: you really should read
the logs,
this was discussed ad nauseam.
Adlai is equally amused from "lalala
taint doesn't exist" and "lalala bitcoin doesn't exist"
Adlai: let's say i've identified a certain address A as coins
that are "not welcome here". i see it move coin
to address B, so i sniff around and notice
that B is a deposit address on bitbet, with winnings going
to C. i add C
to
the list of unwelcome money.
mircea_popescu: not sure why we put it in, but i
think it was
the usual "customer request" stuff
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> how is
that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see
their winnings on
the site << not how
that works.
kakobrekla: i dont recall if
there ever was an approved one
kakobrekla: private bets are public, just need a password
to request a deposit address
nubbins`: at which point incompatibilities in ld crop up and grind
the
thing
to a halt
nubbins`: so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up
to bitcoind itself
Adlai: how is
that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see
their winnings on
the site
danielpbarron: someone should
tell
the exit scammers about bitbit as an option for mixing
Adlai: dogecoin rallied after
they added css3 moon rocket upvote animations
thestringpuller: lol slush adds css
to site everyone is like "this is best site ever"
mircea_popescu: ;;later
tell funkenstein_ could
that
thing stop being disqus
nubbins`: "This second pillar of Legion
Theory might appear
to be an unnecessary complication
to our model. Dare we say, an “intellectual wank”. "
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold
to drop under $1000 before August 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight.
Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,907.
mircea_popescu: about as sensible as
the "paradise" of xtians, or ragnarok or w/e.
nubbins`: yeah
tim draper owes me at least a few bucks
mircea_popescu: and yes
the brain's not a leviathan. nothing is.
that only exists as a first line of fantasy, no place ever worked like
that except in
the bookish literotica of state-wankers.
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously, people working on computational
theories of human intelligence are basically correct and broadly irrelevant, yes people who were working on
this 30 years ago are
too stupiud
to follow it, because hey,
they didn't grow up with a computer, like i did, and yes culture consists of a lot of fleas and relatively little
treasures.
funkenstein_: We're beginning
to come
to grips with
the idea
that your brain is not
this well-organized hierarchical control system where everything is in order, a very dramatic vision of bureaucracy. <-- i liked
that part
mircea_popescu: there's some reasonable if banal shit floating around in a sea of very annoying nonsense. wtf is "out of whack" even supposed
to mean, and since when is an ipad a better model of computing
than a desktop.
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, i
thought it was interesting, but i guess not enough
to finish it
funkenstein_: maybe you'd rather pay more for fresh minted coins, i hear some people prefer
them
nubbins`: funkenstein_ no better
than fresh-minted coins?
danielpbarron: then you'd destroy all
those coin-days which i
thought was
the
thing you were
trying
to sell
nubbins`: i'm not sure
that's
the word you're looking for
danielpbarron: how does
that even work? you sell
the private key?
funkenstein_: so no bitcoin numismatics
then? 2 BTC for my coin which was mined in 2010?
mircea_popescu: going
to 1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55, never spent.
nubbins`: anyone happen
to have any of
the btc addresses used for
the first sr auction?
mircea_popescu: not every poltroonish german's a gestapo agent, not every poltroonish soviet's a kgb agent and not every reddit idjit's working for
teh soup.
danielpbarron: the story might be all
the FEDs
that swarm
to reddit saying
things like "see bitcoin isn't anonymous you better just use dollars!"
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't necessartily be much more
than editorializing, up
to cazalla if he wants more of
that or more news
to balance
things out.