log☇︎
509200+ entries in 0.324s
jurov is doing shit with lowlevel dbus interface.. and very first sample caused the introspection to timeout, how else
asciilifeform: oh and mats, forgot to ask: why have you forgotten about the massive (iirc, 10-20 mil) usg bribe to rsa?
assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ3EQY )
nubbins`: some of you may find this interesting, i found some pics from when i rebuilt my coffee roaster: http://imgur.com/WrXz3WY,CbtEo0O,uojejnr,A8KKjzG,yTGzvNA,Te8ddW5
thestringpuller: chetty: what university did you go to?!? lol
assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ15OM )
chetty: <nubbins`> this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university// it is what a uni should be
ben_vulpes: blocks for the block god
nubbins`: for the good of the republic
ben_vulpes: i've lost track of how many times i've done it.
nubbins`: this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university
nubbins`: but we're tiiiiiiiiiired
chetty: <nubbins`> "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"// no one ever controls the world at large :P get used to it
nubbins`: too bad you can't light cigars with these things
nubbins`: i blame the guy's teachers and parents
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.02, Best ask: 246.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.18000, Last trade: 246.01, 24 hour volume: 55703.96526026, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 268.99, 24 hour vwap: None
nubbins`: "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"
assbot: Anyone else getting tired of this bullshit blatant downward price manipulation? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPVHLD )
nubbins`: ^ packaged w/ mycelium entropy thingy
asciilifeform: and that whatever else we conclude, the fella who wrote hearbleed doesn't get to say 'oops. i promise i won't do it again. now let me write some more critical code'
asciilifeform: but that 'the evidence cannot be had and we must operate without it'
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, i was not arguing that 'the evidence exists somewhere damnit' (though i belive it)
assbot: This snake's defense mechanism is to become a treble clef - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPUzYa )
mats: i guess you'll have to torture the interrogator.
asciilifeform: and then i will question the loyalty and competence of the torturer.
asciilifeform: when ever man and woman who ever worked at nsa dies under torture and doesn't say anything about dual_ec - then i might believe 'mistake'
asciilifeform: hell, we don't even have 1% of the kgb archive.
asciilifeform: if the paperwork is missing - it isn't like we have all the usg archives on display!
asciilifeform: all the necessary evidence.
asciilifeform: the bloody corpse is the evidence
mats: but did, all those other times?
mats: show me the motherfucking evidence! you mean to tell me these bureaucrats decided not to commit anything to paper this go-around?
asciilifeform: mats: if you have philosophical objections to 'behave as if X even if possibly ~X is true' then try to come up with some other syllogism. but it -must- end in 'the people who gave us heartbleed and dual_ec DO NOT GET TO MAKE CRYPTO ANY MORE'
nubbins`: i have reams of this material
mats: but i don't see that this is the case here.
mats: there is actual evidence of malfeasance by NSA on other counts, documented and sometimes committed to powerpoint glory
asciilifeform: note the folks routinely shoot themselves and one another in not altogether dissimilar way
asciilifeform: mats: let's put another example. if you are found holding a smoking pistol, with $famouspolitican in a bloody heap on the floor where he was not long ago giving a speech - do you suppose the judge would believe that you drew the pistol and pulled the trigger by accident, while reaching for another object in your pocket ?
asciilifeform: mats: i did not know this.
mats: fun fact: the tor browser bundle uses the Windows heap instead of jemalloc
nubbins`: example from link: "When a black guy works at Starbucks and one hesitates to ask him for `black coffee" ☟︎
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tolerast | Aug 6, 2012 ... tolerast. a mix of `tolerant` and `pederast`, hyper tolerant person, who will sacrifice all of his beliefs just to avoid being thought of as `intollerant`.
nubbins`: ;;ud tolerasty
asciilifeform: one has to work against one's upbringing, typically, to arrive at the message i was trying to pass here.
fluffypony: on on the seventh day we'll rest, nubbins`
asciilifeform: see, everybody's got these mental patterns, in the ru thinking sphere it is called 'tolerasty'
fluffypony: ok Monday at 3, then
asciilifeform: fluffypony: when they all take up diddled crypto ?
fluffypony: when do we start burning the jews?
fluffypony: and then we shoot him
asciilifeform: but overall picture should be clear at this point.
nubbins`: gun was bad so we had to use the bayonets
asciilifeform: for the bad people - who deliberately sabotaged algo - bad wall, bad bullet, ..., bad earth
asciilifeform: yes, some crypto designers make mistake, they are good people, sure, whatever. i will borrow from slavoj žižek and say then 'we put them to a good wall, shoot them with a good bullet from a good gun, and bury them in with a good shove in the good earth' - since sure, they are good people.
asciilifeform: every intelligence service on the planet has own jargon word for these
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu uses word 'asset' for both, but they are distinct animals
asciilifeform: which is to say, folks who are acting in the interests of usg but do not consciously know it
asciilifeform: and aside from stooges and people, there also exist useful idiots
asciilifeform: there is literally nothing else (other than a certain measure of 'guilt by association')
asciilifeform: all you have to go on, when answering the question 'usg stooge or not' is - 'by their fruits you will know them'
nubbins`: maybe intent is to give you the clap
asciilifeform: it has to do with the impossibility of knowing intent
nubbins`: hm, true
asciilifeform: the original idea, that is
asciilifeform: because it had nothing to do with probabilities
asciilifeform: nubbins`: very much the wrong analogy
nubbins`: asciilifeform put another way: not everyone has syphilis, but you'd be remiss not to wrap it up when sexing a stranger
thestringpuller: isn't there that saying, "Road to hell something something good intentions?"
asciilifeform: is this too subtle for people ?
asciilifeform: but it is necessary to -behave- as if they were
thestringpuller: is there really a difference?
asciilifeform: so it is not necessary to -believe- that every single bug is deliberately crafted
fluffypony: (in this instance)
fluffypony: I think it's very hard to tell the difference between mistake and malice.
asciilifeform: just a strategic lack of support for anything which might poison the maggots.
asciilifeform: in hopes that the maggots will hatch naturally
asciilifeform: thing is, there are not so many good opportunities for crafted vulns, and the usg folks know it. hence they try to cultivate an overall maggoty flavour in software culture at large
nubbins`: 1% chance of it being an intentional backdoor is 1000x the proof you need to not use it
asciilifeform: this is a fairly outlandish thing on the surface, and i will justify it with something like 'pascal's wager'
asciilifeform: mats: at the risk of repeating myself, i will phrase my position as a kind of maxim: 'it is necessary to behave as if hearbleed and dual_ec were crafted vulns, regardless of any apparent evidence to the contrary'
nubbins`: all american internet traffic flowing through an NSA closet in an at&t building -- it can't be true
mats: look, i'm putting my skepticism on the record. if there was evidence, it'd look like 'Tor Stinks' or the slides from Der Spiegel's work on the Belgacom pwnage. i'm not saying that Dual_EC_DRBG doesn't have obvious flaws or that anyone should continue using it, but my skepticism regarding it being an intentional backdoor remains
nubbins`: the usa invading a foreign country on 100% false pretenses, it can't be true
asciilifeform: but if you have the upbringing of a thinking (that is, polymathic) person - you can get somewhere.
nubbins`: the gasenwagen, it can't be true.
asciilifeform: unfortunately, for most of the folks who do this, it ends in a belief in unidentified flying proctologists
asciilifeform: once you amputate your vestigial 'this can't be true' organ, you are left with only your understanding of the physical world to go on
nubbins`: i think the overwhelming amount of justification triggers a "this CAN'T be true" response in a lot of people
asciilifeform: enough for anyone, i'd think, at this point
asciilifeform: nearly everything i and fellow paranoiac crackpots have ever spoken about crypto has proven to be abundantly justified.
nubbins`: while one may feel silly taking the paranoid stance as the default.... we're just evaluating the evidence as presented
nubbins`: mats i understand your viewpoint but plz to understand that paranoia has proved to be justified time and again
asciilifeform: who want their faces to stay hidden
asciilifeform: i am quite able to discuss the mathematics
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that plus another directorate name is pretty much all we publicly have on the 'directorate of breaking pgp'
mats: i hate discussing these things with you people
nubbins`: PIEDMONT: "Provides protection to NSA's bottom line capabilities to exploit SIGINT targets by attacking the hard mathematical problems underlying public key cryptography as well as any future technologies as may be developed"
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:35:49; asciilifeform: if you create a 'heartbleed' - you are a вредитель. and whether you did it intentionally, given the impossibility of proof - does not matter.
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'
asciilifeform: because 'i accidentally the bug' can never be proven