507600+ entries in 0.307s
mircea_popescu: what's with
the charity bs and what's with
the sub million bs. is
this
the new jersey memorial golf circuit ?
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:13:12; punkman:
http://blog.samaltman.com/bubble-talk "This bet is open
to
the first VC who would like
to
take it .
The loser donates $100,000
to a charity of
the winner’s choice." meh
ascii_field: danielpbarron: at first i
though
that
the rear button was a cpu reset line
nubbins`: gonna
try
the SD-for-block-storage route on one of
these
nubbins`: i
try
to use .foundation when
they're not both in
the same sentence 8)
nubbins`: so
the switch from phoundation seeds
to foundation seeds must happen after said pipes are
tapped
ascii_field: it must be
there
to remind
the enemy of his helplessness
ascii_field: the movability is like nukes, shouldn't ever have
to be -used- - with any regularity
ascii_field: try
to see, i don't suggest hosting
therealbitcoin mega-seeds on dynamic ip consumer boxes
nubbins`: unit comes w/ instructions for use,
that includes grabbing both
the bitcoind
tarball and a seed list
tarball of choice
nubbins`: foundation could publish a list of
trusted seeds each month w/ state of
the union
ascii_field: but simply 'we can move
these at zero cost
to us and ours if we want
to, so don't bother shooting at
them'
ascii_field: but
there is a reasonably sane solution
that doesn't involve secrecy
nubbins`: at
this rate you're gonna have
to get in
the wot before someone
tells you a seed ip
ascii_field: hence
the sheer lunacy of unchangeable ips anywhere
ascii_field: nubbins`: yes. but -how attractive- a
target, will depend on how much damage can be done
to our cause by shooting at it
nubbins`: any seed list made public by any means is a
target
ascii_field: nubbins`: node ships with no seeds. even without bitcoind binary. user inserts a storage unit on which he has placed a
therealbitcoin-signed
tarball.
this gets eaten up.
nubbins`: ascii_field so what's
the path from rsa key -> seed node
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF
Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021375 B (Total: 467.44 B). Delta: 0.31 B. Last
trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
ascii_field: or have it administratively forced
to rout
to ft meade
ascii_field: and
the only way
this could be so is if
there are no magic hardcoded ips.
ascii_field: there will be considerably less cat'n'mouse if enemy -knows-
that
there can be no effect from chewing on
the mice
nubbins`: in
the meantime, we've been using a different six since we sent out
the first X units
ascii_field: the only reason
they are alive (and are
they? i checked a good while ago) is
that no one cared.
nubbins`: so according
to
this, six live seeds would ostensibly be enough
to bootstrap with
jurov: if seedlist is
to be signed,
then it can download it automatically, no?
nubbins`: i
think
this is on
the ml somewhere..
ascii_field: the only way
to cut usg-controlled apparatus entirely out of
the loop is
to have
the node get all volatiles (e.g., ip addrs) from files, on inserable media, -signed- by burned-in and prominently-advertised key.
ascii_field: nubbins`: don't need
to (and same problems apply
to it)
ascii_field: this is right back
to phoundation's idiocies.
ascii_field: usg has real
time iron control over all of dns.
nubbins`: hardcode DNS servers and fill
the seed list w/ hostnames instead of ips
ascii_field: at
the risk of pissing off many, i will still say, screw ipv6
ascii_field: i recall at least one
that concerns marvell in particular
ben_vulpes is a
total country bumpkin re: anything combudder
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i recommend strongly against ipv6 in
this machine
nubbins`: lel,
total country bumpkins here re: ip blocks obv 8)
ben_vulpes: and shouldn't
this discussion be looking at ipv6 as well?
nubbins`: i'm sure we all have at least a reasonably narrow range of IPs
that'll be assigned
to our nodes, even if
they're dynamic
ascii_field: ultimately
the only proper box is one where
the only magical constant is an rsa key, and same key is also prominently burned into
the chassis
nubbins`: anyway, consider
the statement suitably modified
nubbins`: you can't have visible
to users but invisible
to usg
ben_vulpes: and it'll remain
that way until
the block download
thing is fixed
to a)
track node quality and b) spot-check blocks provided by high quality peers
ascii_field: implies
that
these can be
told apart from others
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: he use
the phrase '.foundation nodes'
ascii_field: how do you propose
to distinguish friend/foe ?
nubbins`: sure, it'll
take a couple days humming before it starts getting blocks
nubbins`: fuck it, get it
to scan a random /16 for .foundation nodes on first boot
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: user-flashed possibly, from vendor state, but not into a configuration
that is reflashable in
the same idiot (remote exploit) way
ascii_field: i'm fine with him having
to buy a new box -then-
ascii_field: why would someone buy a box from
therealbitcoin when he suspects we've been
turned ?
nubbins`: now you're stuck with a box with OUR keys being
the arbiter
ascii_field: to
tivo or not
to
tivo,
that is
the question
nubbins`: suppose you get a box and
then start suspecting we've been
turned.
ascii_field: and where mircea_popescu wakes up and says 'now
the machine is 1000x more complex, needs
to know what wot is'
ben_vulpes: if we're
to entertain updating, operators *must* be able
to update without foundation keys.
ascii_field: this is where you gotta make
the call re: how much centralization you want.
ben_vulpes: so if i might be forgiven for conflating
things, should not any subset of
the wot graph be able
to use
their own keys?
ascii_field: warning
that if we bake machines with unchangeable ip constants,
this paints a fat blinking
target on
them
nubbins`: what sort of handshake happens when you find a live ip in
the seed list
ascii_field: i was objecting
to hardcoding of seeds -by us-
ben_vulpes: i may be wrong and stupid, but i'm willing
to be corrected and learn
ascii_field: nubbins`: ultimately
the first principle is
that pubkeys are
the only valid locators for anything purporting
to be human
ascii_field: give or
take a few months, enemy starts
to bark up
the vaguely-correct
tree.
nubbins`: this is getting dangerously closer
to bringing
the whole seed
thing back
to first principles, you know
ascii_field: and i disagree with mircea_popescu's hypothesis
that 'enemy is stupid'. he is not stupid. he is being slow, so as
to show off his sprezzatura.
ascii_field: except
they won't be dead,
they'll be hosting phoundation syblics
nubbins`: and
there's you with half a blockchain
nubbins`: and a week later
they're all dead in
the water
nubbins`: until you hardcode a
thousand seed ips
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:10:32; mircea_popescu: forget it, you want
to upgrade get a new unit.
ascii_field: (who don't appear
to be logged in at present, but, still)
ascii_field: nubbins`: i am
trying
to knock some sense into
the folks
taking
the 'no updates,
throw'em out every
time' folks
nubbins`: this brings us back
to
the seeds