504500+ entries in 0.315s
Chillum: I would love
to read an essay describing
the sort of infractructure you find safe
Chillum: May I suggest
that you describe your best practices so
that people running
this SSL free code will know how
to not do it wrong?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and read
their own dbs and advanced shit like
that!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: because
they can spell and write
their own e-mails ?
mircea_popescu: Hope you are doing well. I am a client services manager here at AdMedia. I was wondering if
there might be a possible partnership opportunity between our
two companies. We have previously and recently ran campaigns for
trilema.com via
third party networks. We wanted
to discuss
the opportunity of working directly
mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs +
trilima
ben_vulpes: the
thing calling into your wallet is also an attack point
Chillum: what exactly does more
than one computer get me?
mircea_popescu: single machine paradigm is flawed for
this application.
Chillum: if
the built in API is really
that insecure I suppose I can write an access layer
mircea_popescu: whoever wants
them can put
them in, like you say above.
mircea_popescu: and whatever customers may "have come
to expect", bitcoin is
too valuable
to cater
to
that in breach of security and safety. so, options
that are by
their nature insecure shouldn't be provided at all.
mircea_popescu: that idiocy was easily excusable in 2009. meanwhile, we just don't do
that.
mircea_popescu: Chillum generally,
the idea being
that running a wallet client and a bitcoin node on
the same system (let alone in
the same program) is beyond idiotic.
Chillum: sockets vs
tcp, should be secure both ways
Chillum: how would you import a key into a wallet if not with
the API?
Chillum: also when using
the API we will be passing private keys
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski is
that actually
the guy ? who even made mycellium ?
Chillum: funkenstein_: you don't. Buy when you contact
the API and provide your API keys you want
that encyrpted
mircea_popescu: Chillum
the problem is we know ssl
to be intentionally misimplemented. as you say, on layers.
Chillum: all
tools have potential for implementation errors
assbot: Proof
That Mycelium Knows How
To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1D0hill )
funkenstein_: for example if i am
trying
to publish a
transaction
to
the world with my wallet, why would i encrypt it before sending?
mircea_popescu: Chillum and also make your own implementation,
to not depend on "implementation errors" ?
Chillum: in fact
trusting verisign or something
to authenticate keys is
the root of most problems
Chillum: you can control
the keys in ssl. You don't have
to use existing authority chains you can make your own
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ssl is for any application where security
theatre is +ev and security itself doesn't matter.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he's not from reddit, he's from wikipedia. pls
to not insult
teh muggles with misidentification.
Chillum: if you were not using a wallet
then I agree SSL is pointless
ben_vulpes: maybe instead of "herp derp i pinions bros" you might start by asking "why did you rip
TLS out with such anger and speed?"
ben_vulpes: there is more context in
this channel
than dreamt of in all of reddit, Chillum
Chillum: yes I am building a full node on a raspberry pi 2
to be used as a hot wallet
ben_vulpes: <Chillum> [14:55] In my opinion SSL is not a
turd
to be ripped out << dude
this is a something like 4 month long project going on here
mircea_popescu: i don't
think
that's a supported usecase as of yet ? mebbe i'm behind here.
funkenstein_: all
TXs, block DL requests, block solution reports, node announcements etc.
Chillum: I am going
to get some fresh air
mircea_popescu: Chillum have you seen
the numerous cases where we pass back and forth "plaintext" over pastebin here ?
Chillum: asciilifeform: nobody is disputing
that SSL has issues, but plaintext is not a better alternative
mircea_popescu: offending people is required
to participate here i
thought.
Chillum: I certainly did not mean
to offend anyone by saying SSL is not a
turd, if
this is a controversial statement I will keep it
to myself
mircea_popescu: but a debate doesn't become religious by declaratory relief from having
to
think about it.
mircea_popescu: Chillum definitely can run whatever
the heck you please.
funkenstein_: sslsniff is a
tool you can use
to capture ssl data
Chillum: It is clear I have stumbled into a religious debate. I have no more interest in changing your mind about SSL
than I do with you changing my mind. I will run SSL on my bitcoind API if you don't mind.
mircea_popescu: get it
to any other standard, you'll do as bad as all
the schmucks on windows
funkenstein_: nokia was caught capturing all ssl
traffic
through
their networks at one point
mircea_popescu: Chillum just all
the ones you should practically care about.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ incidentally, about 5x better
than sending someone
to go listen
to something is
transcribing
the something so
they can read it.
Chillum: not all attackers are people in dark server rooms with ciggerette smoking g men behind
them
funkenstein_: Chillum, go listen
to moxie marlinspike's
talks on
the
topic
Chillum: actual encounters = some script kiddie running ettercap
to intercept your
traffic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wrote
the meta-nsa micromanagement
three ring binder
too ?
mircea_popescu: "ssl will stop all but
the actual attacks you will encounter"
Chillum: SSL will stop all but
the most advanced of attackers
Chillum: security is layers,
that is how
the industry works
Chillum: so because ssl has had problems it is better
to use plain
text?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't you use
to bemoan
the fact
that "no valued crypto stuff is ever leaked" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, is
the "valued crypto" bit starting
to fuzz over
there ?
funkenstein_: chillum its not
the encryption
thats broken its
the authentication
mats: have you read
the openssl code Chillum?
mircea_popescu: "an implementation failure" ?
the
time we
took out usg's most valuable asset and publicly shot it in
the head was "an implementation failure" "?
Chillum: read
the patches before running it
Chillum: I
think it should come with a big "NO SSL" warning next
to
the download so people are not caught unaware
mircea_popescu: Chillum but
they do in fact ALL accept verisign master keys.
mircea_popescu: with
the advent of bitcoins,
things have changed. a stolen bitcoin is a stolen bitcoin no matter how
the
theft was perpetuated, or under what color of law.
Chillum: I have worked in computer security for 15 years. While many implementations of SSL host checking are flawed and
the hierarchial
trust model is a joke
the underlying encryption is solid until some learns
to find prime factors of large numbers easily.
mircea_popescu: now,
this entire "yeah
the usg is your main enemy but whatever, you don't really want
to protect your fucking
tweets from
them anyway" worked
to propose
turdstack = pancake.
Chillum: In most practical scenarios
the enemy is a person
trying
to steal bitcoins
mircea_popescu: security solutions
that avoid
this point are exercises in disinfo.
mircea_popescu: in most practical scenarios,
the only enemy any user will ever encounter is
the usg.
Chillum: exactly, not a reason
to stop fucking