473200+ entries in 0.281s
cazalla: justJanne, ya know what shit won't be
there when you're older, right?
trinque: danielpbarron: people can't
think for
themselves and store away for
the future
trinque: and
that's not counting
the yearly evaporation of weath
through currency debasement
trinque: shit it's effectively 50 in
the states
too
danielpbarron: whatever you're referring
to,
the monstrosity has 50%
tax rate!
justJanne: Ah,
the english article for "social democracy" is actually wrong
trinque: as
this aggregate "the people"
trinque: justJanne:
the issue is your assumption
that you have call
to involve yourself in my affairs
trinque: issue isn't
the smell of piss
trinque: jurov: if I had a kid right now I'd be able
to pay for it just fine
danielpbarron: i don't want
to live in your socialist hell-hole where every man rides
the same urine-smelling bus no matter how productive he is
jurov: and you
trinque cazalla danielpbarron are
talking about some ideal you can't afford anyway
justJanne: trinque: I am
talking about "anyone can become politician"
trinque: "normal people" among
them
trinque: justJanne: many of
the phrases you use are propaganda
terms with no well defined meaning
cazalla: jurov, i would if i could, but i can't afford my own doctor.. i can afford
to keep kid out of childcare
justJanne: my state’s governor uses
the same bus as me every morning
justJanne: that’s why politicians are supposed
to be normal people.
danielpbarron: cazalla, it's practically a mathematical proof :
the further detached money gets from
the person it is meant
to benefit,
the less efficiently it will be spent
jurov: cazalla:
the $1000 figure stays even more so if you're
to stay home
mats: it just happens
that
the moat is
too high for joe commoner
to cross.
cazalla: my point was more
that
the idea
that you get back what you pay in
taxes by way of free healthcare and childcare is retarded
mats: the point of being a business is
to brutally murder your competition.
there's no avoidance going on.
trinque: it's not "oh no
they're winning"
cazalla: jurov, nope, i'm anti-childcare, kids should be home with
their parents, not strangers and other swine
justJanne: trinque: Google on
the search market
justJanne: and rarely monopolies every arise without
this
trinque: justJanne: you find me a "monopoly" in history
that didn't have govt protection
justJanne: the issue with monopolies is
that
the companies behind it
try
to do everything in
their mind
to avoid competition.
justJanne: monopolies aren’t really "evil",
they just develop out of greed
mats: but
they're evil. you must fight evil.
mats: but you'd bust
that up, if you ran
things.
mats: and you want, what, a coalition of retards (e.g. bureaucrats and commoners)
to manage allocation of capital?
justJanne: mats: your freedom ends where
the freedom of
the others begins
mats: its entirely possible
that monopolies, oligopolies will naturally arise in conditions of voluntary
trade
mod6: asciilifeform:
thx for posting
the werker
trinque: try doing radio experiments in your garage and see how long it
takes for
the FCC
to show up
cazalla: you might pay $100
to
them in
tax but you sure as fuck don't get back $100 worth of childcare when it's free
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 00:04:29; justJanne:
trinque: you get all
those 50%
taxes back
to you. In free child daycare, free healthcare, etc.
justJanne: mats: yes, but you have
to ask
the question different.
mats: because everyone should get a shot at being a
telecoms company!
justJanne: and
the oligopols lobby corrupt politicians,
too
trinque: too much noise; one point at a
time.
danielpbarron: justJanne, your society is a prison;
that is,
the one in which
there is no individual and only
the considerations of
the lowest common denominator
trinque: justJanne: what keeps
them from being outcompeted?
justJanne: so, in your minds,
the Comcast/ATT/Verizon oligopol is good?
jurov: yeah, it is actually
true providing shelter
to homeless is cheaper
than let
them die and dispose of properly
trinque: we can imagine all sorts of ideal scenarios if we're free
to disregard parts of reality we don't like
trinque: justJanne: you cannot assert such
things absent
the financial considerations
mats: why should society save you from yourself?
that's not sustainable in
the least.
justJanne: it is more profitable, for example,
to put criminals into a
trade school and let
them work again
than
to put
them into a prison
danielpbarron: this notion
that you can be born "not responsible" is
the false axiom from which you base further positions
justJanne: danielpbarron: because
they have a chance
to work later on again?
trinque: or she, I guess
these days
trinque: danielpbarron: because govt is
the new god and he can save us from even death
trinque: justJanne: so out of
this bundle of bad decisons how do good ones emerge?
danielpbarron: why should someone who is prone
to "lose it all" be propped up by his more productive neighbors?
trinque: so how did I get involved in
that?
justJanne: but society is
there
to save you from
the consequences of bad decisions ;P
trinque: justJanne:
then you made bad decisions
trinque: danielpbarron: and results in a person
that can *make decisions*
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Morphine yeast seems like a bigger blow
to
the fiat order
than 3D guns and shovel AK's for sure
danielpbarron: high returns is a safeguard against starving when you lose your job; it leads
to savings
justJanne: trinque: you get all
those 50%
taxes back
to you. In free child daycare, free healthcare, etc.
☟︎ trinque: and substituting "consent" for
that
trinque: justJanne: you are completely ignoring
the financial considerations involved
justJanne: and
that it is preferable
to be safe over having high returns
trinque: danielpbarron: heh I always like "surgery by your peers" as a
thought experiment
justJanne: no.
they just know
that one day
they might lose
their job,
justJanne: they got less
than 4% of
the votes last election
trinque: determining
that 50%
taxes is
the magic number is not soviet because "the people"
justJanne: we have a party
that aims for
that.
justJanne: the people?
that’s why you have (a) elections and (b) public polls on
them?
trinque: give me a low cost of living and don't
tax
the shit out of me and I'll start all kinds of businesses
trinque: uh huh and who determined
those are
the magic numbers?
justJanne: essentially a free market, but with 50%
taxes and basic income
trinque: central planning has limitations which will mean
that you get far fewer "startups"
trinque: if we presuppose
that
the only way
to start a business will be having someone bankroll you, we're already lost
trinque: but
that is not
tantamount
to saying "therefore social democracy"
trinque: you'll get no argument from me on
that
justJanne: you don’t need
to aim for 1 billion users with your 5 people startup
to be sustainable
justJanne: the
thing is
that most of
these don’t aim for a huge profit,
justJanne: not really.
There are many startups here, actually.
trinque: sounds like an environment where it'd be difficult
to get anything new started
justJanne: tbh, it’s
the only really sustainable way
justJanne: the first system I discuss in scandinavia or central europe is a place where 60% of
the companies have existed for centuries, have long
term neither profit nor losses, and no growth