472200+ entries in 0.271s
williamdunne: It stems from
the idea of ownership and necessity of a common unit
williamdunne: And it has been "invented" god knows how many
times independently
williamdunne: Money has existed since before government was a concept
that meant anything other
than some
tribe leader with a bone
through his nose
mircea_popescu: but other
than
that, money was invented and reinvented by people, most recently being called bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: so, yes,
the idiocy of socialism, no matter how named, and
the superiority of la serenissima, etc, are rules of
the world, and drive it whether named or unnamed.
williamdunne: doesn't mean rocks didn't fall before, but it does mean it wasn't called gravity. <<
this is exactly what I mean
williamdunne: Hence why
the Indians die and Europeans rule
the world
williamdunne: Its sort of not invented but pretty much inherent
to humans
justJanne: Money is a
thing invented by people.
justJanne: And
there are many successful Nordic startups and companies.
justJanne: You can start a company, and become a huge multinational even, as long as everyone has enough
to fulfill
their basic needs.
justJanne: Socialism, originally, was intended
to do exactly
this: give everyone equal chances, but
then let
them do
their own
thing. Of course you can start a company and become rich,
this is no issue, as long as no one starves
to death.
justJanne: Tbh, even
the US nowadays is quite close
to what Marx described.
justJanne: The Nordic model is what Marx meant, but Lenin and Stalin went
totally retarded.
mircea_popescu: lol. what is with socialism and its desperate need
to a) pretend it has a different name now and b) pretend it has historical roots ?
justJanne: The current nordic model was already discussed and partially implemented in
the 1800s
mircea_popescu: who knew
that
the reunification of germany was going
to go
the other way.
justJanne: The market will correct itself, if
there is a market.
mircea_popescu: and if you have no
toilet paper or jeans, eager kiel sluts will suck capitalist cock for a song
justJanne: Also, you often don't need laws or regulations, as
they are often ignored, if you use society or physics, it works better. Example:
the streets in my city. If you have no parking lots anywhere in
the city, people will have
to use public
transport. And private investors are happy
too, because
they can build parking lots and charge moon prices. 8$/h
mircea_popescu: williamdunne i was reduced
to googling for your coupla phrases. reddit comes up.
mircea_popescu: the next
thing coming is "you know, i don't
think we should be seeing each other anymore"
justJanne: But it was 3 years ago, and in school, so I don't remember much more except for getting in an argument with my
teacher.
mircea_popescu: you know,
that's how rich men dump young girls ? "what did you
think of
the film" "meh" "specifically ?" "i just didn't like it"
williamdunne: Safety is
the precedent for anything dystopian
justJanne: This is Germany.
The place where people will wait at an empty crosswalk at 3am on Sunday.
mircea_popescu: i can't stand it in people, and especially not in men. imagine
the unbearable conversation of someone who prefers
the stability of bureaucratism and "not having
to depend on clients"
justJanne: Being risk averse is a very stable solution,
though.
williamdunne: Being risk averse isn't a good idea generally speaking, if you want
to be succeeding at anything.
mircea_popescu: you wanna be ~my~ father, you shoulda done a shitload better
than
this stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: well, don't you
think he should be ashamed of himself, in front of you ?
justJanne: But he preferred
the stable job in a company over
the risk of having
to depend on clients.
williamdunne: It’s not an endlessly expanding list of rights —
the ‘right’
to education,
the ‘right’
to health care,
the ‘right’
to food and housing.
That’s not freedom,
that’s dependency.
Those aren’t rights,
those are
the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.
mircea_popescu: "hey, be
thankful for
the little you get" and all
that jazz.
justJanne: There are also corporal lawyers working in companies writing legal
terms for contracts all day long.
justJanne: Also,
there are different kinds of lawyers.
williamdunne: Too many lawyers, education diluted
the market I'm guessing
mircea_popescu: justJanne so he studied law and you still need
the state
to put you
through college ?
williamdunne: justJanne: Don't mistake
this for being a channel where everyone had rich parents
justJanne: Thanks
to free education, he studied law.
justJanne: Take for example my father, no money, piss poor. Would have had no money for studying. But also not able
to work heavy work.
mircea_popescu: if you
take
the vouches of idiots seriously, it works, sure.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu:
Thats actually becoming a film I
think
justJanne: The idea is
to create a society where every person has an acceptable life.
mircea_popescu: if it isn't your'e fucked, because
that's what you'll ever be.
mircea_popescu: socialism is not only not a given, it is
the system of organised stupidity.
mircea_popescu: to propose
that you can randomly switch people around as if
they were interchangeable parts is already
to introduce socialism as a given
mircea_popescu: again : people are not rootless, leaves in
the wind of "society".
justJanne: Of course most people end up designing a society where everyone has enough
to live, but also has chance
to become rich.
mircea_popescu: people are not "random", leaves in
the wind at
the mercy of 1984-esque government.
justJanne: How would you design a society, assuming you have
to live in it later, you can be any person in it, it is random.
mircea_popescu: being poor is only a problem if you belong
there. otherwise, it's like being dirty.
mircea_popescu: i built more fortunes
thjan you had boyfriends
to date
williamdunne: When you yourself might end up a piss poor person? << being well off isn't left
to chance
justJanne: So, assuming
this experiment, how can you be for an anarchist society,
mircea_popescu: you seriously contemplate
teh notion i'm not aware of "veil of ignorance" etc ?
justJanne: And, interestingly,
this
thought experiment almost always ends in
the Nordic model.
mircea_popescu: justJanne "most of society"
that gets a voice, which is bored women.
justJanne: Interestingly, you should read about
the veil of ignorance.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 10:34:24; justJanne: I
took several undergrad classes in politics, macroeconomy, and political philosophy, I know what I'm
talking about ;P
mircea_popescu: dun make
those statements,
they're stupid
things for stupid people. here,
this, blah.
justJanne: Most people here agree on
this,
though.
mircea_popescu: this is not an issue, for as long as
they understand
that
this is ok for
them and unpleasant for others.
justJanne: The issue is
that most women prefer social stability over
the chance
to get rich.
mircea_popescu: and, in a fascinating
turn of what sexism really is, remember
that one
time when ben_vulpes had a friend over, about
the same age, about
the same ideas and i bit his head off ?
davout: i have like less
than half
this for may
williamdunne: ‘In
this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any popescu’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence and state-funded education system.’"
williamdunne: “Just
to be clear, I’m not a professional ‘politician’. I’m just a german
teenager who greatly values her intelligence and political fact over any silly idea conjured up some years ago.
This being said, I am open
to any and all criticism.
davout: i kind of expected more
tbh
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 09:27:49; mircea_popescu: clever chick with a head fulla stupid meets #b-a. anyone care
to bet on
the linecount
total ?
chetty: <justJanne> I
took several undergrad classes in politics, macroeconomy, and political philosophy, I know what I'm
talking about ;P//OH MY
davout: i was referring
to "davout you got a bet ?"