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453100+ entries in 0.284s
mircea_popescu: the point is to allow no quarter. there is no excuse. joint and several liability exists to deal with exactly this sort of situation.
trinque: who needs govt force when american companies are so happy to provide it on the govt's behalf
mircea_popescu: name the committee, as individuals.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous. << will search. Likely committee action. Just quoting Cooter's thoughts on the action there
assbot: Apple Removes All American Civil War Games From the App Store Because of the Confederate Flag | Touch Arcade ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAgs22 )
mircea_popescu: cut their vague generalities straight from under them.
mircea_popescu: this isn't about principles. this is about particular morons being particularly moronic. they are personally responsible.
mircea_popescu: always put names in there.
mircea_popescu: put names in there.
mircea_popescu: ask who doesn't want to tell you, why don't they want to tell you ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo call up the corp, ask who did it ?
mircea_popescu: Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was gonna say "why not take it back to civil war" to you, but then i realised what cw1 was.
asciilifeform: (yes, i favour 'cw1', like ww1. the latter had to wait for 'ww2', but why wait to use correct term?)
asciilifeform: and cw1 was the first shot
mircea_popescu: Recently agitators in the United States along with officials in various government capacities have been exploiting a recent minor tragedy << would work without the 2nd recent too
mircea_popescu: it's our own "kick the usg till it bites, then shoot it" gambit.
mircea_popescu: yeah, you gotta document the kick.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gotta document the kick
assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAeJJW )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/06/pressure-in-the-united-states-mounts-to-ban-symbols-of-rebellion-against-federal-government << is pretty plainly a 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' gambit on usg's part
shinohai: I imagine there is an unseen strapon somewhere in that image.
asciilifeform: (needs no elaboration, everyone here knows more than ever wanted to)
asciilifeform: there are the mechanics vulns of the shit-stack
asciilifeform: it's the one ~protocol~ vuln, yes
mircea_popescu: it's not. they want to shoot it in the neck.
asciilifeform: can end in some 'dirty' equilibrium, where everybody's living room is filled to capacity with precisely how many rabid weasels it can hold,
mircea_popescu: i've been saying for years it's the one vulnerability.
scoopbot_revived: Eulora third event - Sunday, June 28th http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-third-event-sunday-june-28th/
asciilifeform: as i understand, we already have a 'bezzle' in the net - the unmetered resource, 'blank cheque,' of the mempools. as all 'meat in the sun without flies', it is a very ephemeral thing
mircea_popescu: allows mempools to be run like a service, much like say a website works.
asciilifeform: so ^ then.
mircea_popescu: inclusion in one of these is valuable, and so a private deal can be had.
mircea_popescu: in this way : some mempools, by virtue of being well curated, get to talk first to miners.
asciilifeform: or is he 'running a tab' for folks, and relying on a wotnet ?
asciilifeform: how does the operator determine anything whatsoever re: the validity of 'mempool fee' addressed to him ?
asciilifeform: in the classical sense.
asciilifeform: the whole notion of a payment is defined in reference to blockchain
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this has a bit of a recursion problem: how does mempool operator know that he is being paid ?
mircea_popescu: specifically : that at the very least it should not be possible for one to fire a missile at any place that scarfs up txn or knows about them and hit a miner.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool << I think one of the earliest XT "selling points" by Hearnia was this for some SpamFunder called "Lighthouse"
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm hearing that argument can actually be had in favour of the mempool/minerpool layered implementation.
asciilifeform: but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool
asciilifeform: perhaps this will wait for the 'sanity hardfork' of the distant fyootoor.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i think that'd be actually +ev, but just a thought.
mircea_popescu: ask me more questions about what this guy did in his basement. i enjoy the feelings of impotent frustration.
asciilifeform: (why not route tx straight to miners then. why have two classes of mining..?)
asciilifeform: this sorta turns mempool into even more of a logical albatross than it already is
mircea_popescu: there has to be some import of market into mempool functioning.
mircea_popescu: this will give node operators an incentive to present good pools to the network.
asciilifeform: (vs to miner)
mircea_popescu: even better if the behaviour is dynamic (ie, the minimum only kicks in if the mempool is over 1mb, and selects for optimal fill)
mircea_popescu: actually a switch to create "minimally acceptable /kb subsidy" as a precondition of taking tx into mempool might be useful.
asciilifeform: who says what tx is 'spam'? god ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what i was trying to get across earlier is that the very concept of 'mempool spam' is presently undefined
assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAbORw )
mircea_popescu: so no, jwh "i just want to contribute" doth not work irl.
mircea_popescu: because people must at some point come to comprehend that they are responsible , at the very least for their own lives, and that the choices they make come with consequences, and the consequences will NOT negotiate.
asciilifeform: back to the more interesting point, we still have an unbounded data structure in there...
mircea_popescu: this is very important to ber there, plainly spelled out.
mircea_popescu: more deeply : there is exactly ZERO derivative work implied in the bitcoin foundation's releases. we don't use anything they did, for the explicit reason that everything they did is shit, with the furter implication that every man who ever worked for them WASTED THEIR LIFE.
asciilifeform grasps mircea_popescu's implication that 'the only winning move' in the decimal-point chase game with shitgnomes is 'not to play'
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: What about cutting off the leading zero. Then actual releases start at version 7 or 10, following in the tradition established by the early Linux Distros. << the problem is that the implication of having a 1 leading version (ie, mature product) is laughable. we don't. hopefully one day we will, but the current offering is not it.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't have a specific proposal except that the machine ~must not go down~
asciilifeform not professional spamatronicist, cannot say whether this makes a difference one way or another
mircea_popescu: looky here : they live in my shadow.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this i understand. my asking is what are you proposing before machine goes down?
mircea_popescu: is this some sort of "consensus" that they have or something ? again ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the present situation is that they ~all~ 'get purged' when your box goes down.
mircea_popescu: i think you're not particularly qualified to make this call. what shadow ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i grasp the logic, but notice that we sit in the gigantic spamatronic shadow of the phoundation. if nobody gives a fuck, there isn't much else to be said about this
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if the valid tx's submitted to the network approach a large number that is greater than modest machine's memory capacicty
mircea_popescu: that's all there is to it.
mircea_popescu: there has been no version of bitcoin released past 0.5.3 ; we are releasing the first one. it's 0.5.4
mircea_popescu: we.do.not.care. this is because they.do.not.exist.
mircea_popescu: do you expect torvalds to consider what random shitforbrains released as "linux kernel" and go "hey guise we can't use version x.x, anon shitforbrains used it fiorst!!11" ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what means 'approach infinity' ? if tx is valid, nondoublespent, and has adequate fee, it is 'every bit as tx' as yours or mine
mircea_popescu: will you propose ~WE~ change the versioning number when (not if) some OTHER shitgnomes release a faux version downstream ?
mircea_popescu: four followds three. this is not a function of anyone's idiocy.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out, bitcoind 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed. << makes exactly 0 difference.
mircea_popescu: <shinohai> Hopefully to find a native speaker, which is impossible in my small city. << so buy a bride. ukr won't be cheap much longer.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: even valid transaction can approach infinity
asciilifeform: it is important to remember that there is no 'important' tx from the point of view of the network
asciilifeform: as i understand, they'd more or less have to be attempted doublespends
asciilifeform: a sp4mz0r would have to spam with ~realistic~ tx
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: shooting the tx orphanage in the head rid us of the most obvious spam vector
mod6: Then I'm gonna need to cut away from working on that on Saturday afternoonish at the latest to work on the SoBA -- which is looking to be lengthy for this month.
thestringpuller: i know but how would mempool be effectively capped so nodes don't purge "important" tx's if people spam network
mod6: im currenty building a new AMI for gentoo so I/we can test wtf is going on in there with gcc/uclibc. I should be done with that in a few hours.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: right now it is 'capped' by the ram installed on your box...
mod6: this is a good idea though.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ? << not me yet. there's a laundry list of stuff to get through yet.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how would you cap it? anything below some transaction fee is purged from mempool when gets greater than N-mb?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: but what about the instant stuff like green addres?!?!?!?
asciilifeform: it needs to go.
asciilifeform: afaik this is the last 'blank cheque' left in the skull'n'crossbones version of therealbitcoin
thestringpuller: mod6: thank you! tm101 is blastin in my headphones
asciilifeform: unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ?
asciilifeform: worth a test
mod6: I don't think that's ever been attempted iirc.