log☇︎
445700+ entries in 0.282s
trinque: I'm not even going to share the result; just take a pen and go nuts on a piece of paper and you'll have it
trinque: noticed that many of the tools there are more or less the same java program
trinque: asciilifeform: I got clang to fart out a graphviz dot file; so far, every tool that can eat the thing results in a horrid ball of yarn
trinque: punkman | does 0.0001 still get you in next block? << this is what deedbot- pays
trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-06-2015#1153360 << previous thread ☝︎
punkman: yeah what if you don't get tenure
punkman: "I have intentionally adjusted my teaching materials as the political winds have shifted." "While I used to pride myself on getting students to question themselves and engage with difficult concepts and texts, I now hesitate. What if this hurts my evaluations and I don't get tenure?"
pete_dushenski: "All the old, enlightened means of discussion and analysis —from due process to scientific method — are dismissed as being blind to emotional concerns and therefore unfairly skewed toward the interest of straight white males" << moar gold.
lobbes: "So it's not just that students refuse to countenance uncomfortable ideas — they refuse to engage them, period. Engagement is considered unnecessary, as the immediate, emotional reactions of students contain all the analysis and judgment that sensitive issues demand." << ayup
assbot: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me - Vox ... ( http://bit.ly/1J2tArT )
shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByTeP7JCMAEEymF.jpg <<< ASSet of the day.
jurov: haha yes. but most of the time it just throttled it from gobbling full 768k down to 600k, not very noticeable
decimation: 'plox to make email faster'
decimation: at the cost of slowing email delivery
jurov: in companies where i did sysadmin, outgoing email was prone to slow everything to crawl with ADSL, and obv setting limits on everyone's email clients was impractical
jurov: because bitcoind does not know how to limit itself
thestringpuller: i don't understand why I should have to set iptable rules
thestringpuller: yea. torrent clients (rtorrent) let you limit from within the client
jurov: the idea is, if you limit the uplink yourself before isp does, you can set priority for misc traffic
thestringpuller: which is like the upward limits set by the ISP
thestringpuller: punkman: jurov i can do up to 600kbps on torrents without seeing constipation
punkman: I can barely do 20-30kbps up without router getting constipated, at least when seeding torrents
assbot: Giant robots set to fight after U.S. company issues video challenge to Japanese rival | CTV News ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdzqZu )
mike_c: omg - this better not turn out like the robot ping pong match: http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/giant-robots-set-to-fight-after-u-s-company-issues-video-challenge-to-japanese-rival-1.2456864
jurov: you could set ougoing traffic shaper
thestringpuller: but the main issue is that my upstream limitations are greater restricted than downstream, so when I relay blocks and tx data esp. when mempool is getting big, it chokes me from doing anything remote (like ssh is even slow)
thestringpuller: jurov: yea and assuming the neighbor's wifi is setup to allow incoming connections to 8333
decimation: and the 'attack surface' consists of a few packets asking for the time
decimation: 'civilian' chumper's electricity is probably not more reliable than that anyway
decimation: will work for a year or two
decimation: just use ntpdate to set the clock once and be done
decimation: I don't get it, why do we need to run the ntp daemon to use ntp?
jurov: thestringpuller wih $10 wifi nic you can route bitcoind there right now, no?
punkman: from 0.5.3 source "/// when NTP implemented, change to just nTime = GetAdjustedTime()"
thestringpuller: jurov: if i had a pogo i would connect it to the neighbors unsecured wifi XD
jurov: i don't see where to find 5000 ppl that would tolerate such bw hog
thestringpuller: so i can stream music from my library. these people don't know what they're talking about.
thestringpuller: my internet is drained right now relaying blocks, I had to shut my node off
thestringpuller: so there is no way they can increase the block size
assbot: c - How to write a NTP client? - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1LQjQX7 )
asciilifeform: as in, one that jurov would be willing to read & sign
asciilifeform: what is the shortest known implementation ?
jurov: ntp is simple enough in this situation
jurov: as opposed to "simple as possible, but no simpler"?
asciilifeform: familiar with term 'attack surface' ?
asciilifeform: what'll folks propose to put on this poor box next? 'samba' ?
asciilifeform: jurov: flood is not the only known past ntp vuln
asciilifeform: shinohai: jurov just described a 'business class' that ~will bother~
asciilifeform: rather than the classical 'ocean of shit down your pipe' sense
asciilifeform: jurov: again, i was speaking of ddos in the sense of 'if it is trivial to take out pogo with a nudge that no one else will notice, it will be done'
jurov: so, stfu about ddosing then
asciilifeform: i've been running public node at home for years, in the heart of mordor
jurov: and where are these mythincal civilian nonresidential lines pogo is supposed to be on?
asciilifeform: 'get nothing in return but the word 'business' !!'
asciilifeform: 'pay double for your residential line! because you are a moron and want to show it off!'
punkman: reading the code is quite discouraging
asciilifeform: jurov: classic chumpatron. exists on this side of the atlantic, too
punkman: asciilifeform: don't even need mitm, dozens of DoS vectors in there
jurov: obv. no p2p there
jurov: btw, just today i got an offer for "small business" connection, it included ToS
asciilifeform: and that the thing can be taken out of commission entirely by the cheapest mitm.
asciilifeform: ntp means that you now have a multimegabyte leprous turd on your box.
jurov: so, ntp is the least worry atm
asciilifeform: i am concerned with 'pogos will fall like dominoes from simple and cheap nudge' rather than 'in the dark future where being a known bitcoin user merits gassing'
asciilifeform: jurov: if they're 5000 residential lines in usa, just send the gasenwagen, aha
jurov: the civilians or their isps will stopp cooperate very quickly
jurov: if it's 5000 residential lines, then it's easy
asciilifeform: the 'ddos' i'm concerned with is more that we are setting up a box with unique vulnerabilities
asciilifeform: who, precisely, can ddos (in the traditional sense) 5,000 ip ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: we know the basic shape of the answer, just not the particulars.
jurov: if they're going to ddos known pogo addresses then this has no solution ☟︎
asciilifeform: jurov: unless i am mistaken, the plan was to deploy these to the homes of cooperating civilians
jurov: oh i forgot to add to summary 3. no maintenance
asciilifeform: jurov: i personally am not very interested in building a weapon of war which enemy can turn off, collectively, by flipping a switch
asciilifeform: hell, n00bz to this channel get ddosed with what else if not a thousand ntp boxes !
jurov: and when there's whispernet, it can do time, too
asciilifeform: ntp has serious problems even aside from the central control
asciilifeform: i firmly believe that all of the answers proposed so far are disastrously bad
asciilifeform: punkman: we already know that it is a monstrous perversion that has approximately same relation to bitcoin as american 'chocolate' does to chocolate
jurov: why going to such contortions with time before the rest of proto is secured?
punkman: I don't see local time in there
jurov: the objections can be extended to any other protocol
jurov: so, to summarize. 1. time can't come from net because net ==== usg. 2. time can't come from any additional hw cuz cost
asciilifeform: for folks who are seriously working on the problem: i presently suspect that the solution will resemble some mix of 'lamport clock' and 'the firing squad problem'
asciilifeform: yes, they move...
asciilifeform: letting nodes set own clocks based on what they can see on the net is rather like the train pushers.
asciilifeform: i will leave this with one more analogy: why did marching armies use drummers, instead of having each man push the next fellow, like in a crowded train ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: because this is a truly dire problem, it cannot be waved away.
asciilifeform: i shall be doing the equivalent, this week
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu find the time to visit 'arkakao' and load up on the highest octane sugar-bomb you can! and try to conceive of a solution to this mega-conundrum
asciilifeform: because the only alternative is retardation
asciilifeform: but it will have to come out of somebody's arse
asciilifeform: in the worst case, converting them to sybils in the service of the enemy.
asciilifeform: in that extreme dysfunction could actually frag the net
asciilifeform: the behaviour of these boxes ~actually matters~
asciilifeform: try to remember that we are talking about deploying potentially thousands of these
asciilifeform: which promises to be hilarious
asciilifeform: whereas if you rely on blocks, rather than nodes, you are permitting miners to induce clockdriftforks!
asciilifeform: (depending on how the clock sync is done)
asciilifeform: drift by more than 2h and you're not only fucked, but will mislead others ☟︎