432300+ entries in 0.281s
mircea_popescu: and do not buy into
the illusion
that it was an isolated incident.
mod6: yeah I saw
that about
the eulora
thing.
mircea_popescu: can't even afford
this for eulora, let alone for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: sourceforge goes down,
there goes youre entire project, seriously ?
mircea_popescu: this sounds patently insane, i agree, but i just recently discovered in unrelated proejct
that it's unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: we will have
to at
the very least maintain packages we want
to use, in
the basic sense of, archival for download.
mod6: so i guess
there is still a bit of a fork in
the road; even if we do all of
the hard work of ensuring peoples host dependantcies are installed before any compiling is even attempted, do we even want
that
to be a
thing, as stan said,
this is now obsolete. And do we now maintain a lot of other
things for buildroot?
mircea_popescu: otherwise struggling with installers etc is a horrid
trudge, but it is also an investment in human capital.
mircea_popescu: yeah. still, it's valuable
to
try, because if you help people
they'll help you.
mod6: yeah
totally agree. and i can't help but wonder if it's simply because of
things
that each persons different host has not installed by default. but it's hard
to account for all of
that.
mircea_popescu: mod6 so far 90%+ of
the problems have been with installation, from what i've seen
mircea_popescu: that said, obviously
the effort
to make anything work on
the stack of shit we inherited from our retarded ancestors is nothing short of immense. but, chipping away at it is going
to deliver, and confronting it is definitely going
to show us a few useful
things.
mod6: the idea was; put out
this
test bundle and see if we're on
the right
track and if anyone hits any problems with any of
the patches.
mod6: oh no. i wasn't planning on
that at all
this month anyway.
mircea_popescu: you don't belong
there, and moreover
that's just not our company style.
mircea_popescu: mod6 just don't go
to
this dark place where "omg it's
the 29th and i must have a working final version of bitcoind
to announce
trinque: even among
the smart people... :p
trinque: there aren't enough smart people in
the world
trinque: yeah, I mean
the
thing needs a derpinstaller
mod6: which is why he said he wrote
that in
the first place.
mod6: i
think he's as
tired of our build script problems as I am.
mod6: trinque: he and i discussed
this breifly. and I won't speak for him here. but i wouldn't have said what I said earlier without at least a discussion about
that.
trinque: ben_vulpes has also put some work into his own script, so maybe he wants
to handle it
mircea_popescu: sure, not
to date. but we're not going by
the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for
the next decade we'll be here
trying it in 2026.
☟︎ trinque: mod6: I've already been
testing some of your stuff; if nobody else wants
to manage
the build script, I'm fine with it
mircea_popescu: useful work is useful work.
taking responsibility for
the whole world is a different story.
mod6: and besides, we haven't exactly had great luck with our own build scripts
to date.
mod6: well, i've been pushin pretty hard as far as work load -- what scares me is
taking on buildroot and
trying
to bundle/test
the entire
thing.
mod6: we need something
that people can utilize
to make it work. i
totally agree with
that. and scripts and other widgets
to make it work could even be a separate bundle.
mircea_popescu: more's
the point here, i get
the impression you're chaffing under
too much workload.
mod6: you brought
that up
the otherday, agree 100%
mircea_popescu: not merely just an auto.sh, but step by step instructions
to a level of detail never seen in open source.
mod6: exactly what I'm referring
to.
decimation: british machines were brought
to
the us
to undercut english goods
decimation: the US used
to have a knockoff culture for its first hundred years or so
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds
the source is entire up
to
the user.
There may be preferred way so of doing
this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how
to do
this. But we no longer are going
to fight
through
these environment problems.
hanbot: the choices you get are
the choices you get.
the choices you wish
to make are something else.
hanbot: obviously
the whole ip
thing needs you not
to own your bank account
to work. places where
that's not available develop a knockoff culture and get pretty loud. see south east asia.
trinque: I only live
that my
thoughts may be less encumbered by morons by
the day
trinque: controlling an idea requires an immensely more repressed society
than I would prefer
to live in
trinque: I'm speaking about
the cultural vulgarity of "I own
that idea"
BingoBoingo: So
transaction orphanage not as clean
to cut out of 0.7.2 but done. Bitcoin running. Now
to see if it catches up.
hanbot: you're fighting a strawman, really. might as well claim "nobody could
truly own a cow".
they just
take
the milk is all.
trinque: sure, and
those are actions, and someone may or may not use
their power
to foil you
hanbot: well
the way it usually works is
that if you
try
to make
the movie /
tshirt / book of
the concept you end up losing whatever profits.
trinque: yet I will use
the concept any way
that benefits me
trinque: to
the extent
that someone
thinks
they own a concept, I may lie and let him
think so
hanbot: for as long as
they stay
there i doubt anyone cares.
trinque: I'm responding
to decimation re: IP
trinque: I will revise
to: no one can prevent me from making use of a concept;
they live in
the mind
hanbot: at
the very least classes must own
their names.
hanbot: i suppose
this works ok up until one morning you wake up
to find we've all changed nicks
to
trinque and
there's just no way
to make any sort of further sense of b-a
trinque: because
they don't own
the concept if
that's what
they claim
they're doing
trinque: I reject entirely
the notion
that concepts can be owned.
☟︎ hanbot: doesn't seem
to claim any ownership
decimation: ^ how could
the constition give you your ideas if usg didn't own
them first?
decimation: just like usg claims all your ideas: "To promote
the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited
Times
to Authors and Inventors
the exclusive Right
to
their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
trinque: no kidding.
the resistance
to intelligence is palpable.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:24:23;
trinque: so
the legal precedent here is
that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and
there isn't shit you can do about it?
mircea_popescu: that'd be
the problem.
too much convenience, and allowing women
the illusion
that anyone asked
them for any input in
the big question of whether
their offspring survives or not.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:57:24; ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and
the fact
that we preface our observations with
these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous
the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:56:55;
trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on
the news as ever.
mircea_popescu: "Note,
this is pretty much contrary
to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "early experiments show
that statically linked binaries are usually smaller
than
their dynamically linked glibc counterparts!!!"
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:37:59;
trinque: mod6: maybe you guys need a build/test crew.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:02:16; phf:
trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not
the blessed b-a
target platform
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:58:57; hanbot:
trinque my sha512sum was of old, stale item. refreshed, matches,
tyvm.
mircea_popescu: blergh, fucktarded sales copy, i guess i'm
the dumbass for not noticing it's washitpo again
BingoBoingo taking
time
to nuke ophanages from 0.7.2 ish Bastard block annihilator pretty much works as ascii offered it.
mircea_popescu: "In just five years, Uber has accumulated enough rideshare industry milestones
to make your head spin.
The
total distance
traveled by all Uber drivers would
take you
to Planet Saturn — and back. "
mircea_popescu: in any case in
the
triangle "monthly releases" "mod6 does all
teh work" "bitcoind is usable" i'm not going
to pick
the first
two for fucks sake.
mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able
to pursue pure goals now, but
the cost is any conceivable relevancy.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:05:49; mod6:
Trying
to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone
to use
to build
this
thing is not going
to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else?
That's a game
that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us
to go
that direction.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have
to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you
to explain how you expect users
to use your
thing - nobody is going
to go do
the guesswork of "what
the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else.
☝︎☟︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:57:10; mod6:
The Foundation isn't going
to ship
these builds scripts any more. We're just going
to ship source code for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: myeah, prime
target for revolutionizing,
they used
to be big data in
the 70s
punkman: mircea_popescu: yellow pages
thingie
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:35:04; pete_dushenski: yelp market cap now 1.87 bn and is down 70%
this year. wd sv !
trinque: so
the legal precedent here is
that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and
there isn't shit you can do about it?
☟︎ trinque: sounds like
they barely know what
they want politically
ag3nt_zer0: yeah beenlookinf
there
too.. and montana, and alaska
trinque: I'm
thinking of heading a bit north
to WA
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: it's a
truly beautiful state, but
the people here are red-blooded communists