log☇︎
43300+ entries in 0.029s
asciilifeform: the 'pro' item is iirc advertised as 'certified', whatever that means
diana_coman: but I suspect it's more ~ "too much trouble and nobody needs that anyway"
diana_coman: you'd think they would advertise that at least, if that were the case, no?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: only from entomological pov. i.e. do they break the opensores one deliberately , to upsell to the payware? or both equally braindamaged.
asciilifeform: ( but i do not presently know, nor inclined to buy it to find out )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: another interesting q is -- whether the co
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect this aint the last time we find that gnat breaks standard
diana_coman: but I suspect it's simply one of those "you should prefer" a la http://ossasepia.com/2018/07/14/cutting-mysql-into-musl-shape/#selection-47.98-47.160
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 17:51 mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899741 -> this is imo the most puzzling part of it all: how, just how is breaking the standard justified in those conditions ☝︎
asciilifeform: one interesting twist, the machine actually has an ionization gauge below the bottom, under the crosshair. and control panel allows to specify exposure in terms of the gauge output, but in nonsensical 'AEC' arbitrary unit
asciilifeform: such 'quiet' tubes aint used in medicine, so very little to go on.
asciilifeform ~still~ frustratingly wedged with mircea_popescu's tube puzzle , turns out the 'S' constant for 35kV aint published anywhere, incl. the tube vendor ! and no info published re how to determine it from principles, seems like it gotta be measured by hand.
asciilifeform: ( and the various semaphorisms that it makes necessary )
asciilifeform: good % of the riotous complexity of the sadkernel, once you subtract deviceisms, is the slicer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unix imho is pretty typical piece of tard 'sleight of hand', where offers illusion that 'you can have 9000 continuous threads'
asciilifeform: why the fuck machine even has an interrupt controller, if idjit programmers run slicer to continuously poll e.g. blocking i/o . it's ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: switching was necessary in the early days of computing, when one ox fucked many men.
mircea_popescu: then computers turn around and it's all "oh, you know, what, this compuiter could cook vegetables one slice of each at a time" "and wash knife in between ?!" "of course!"
mircea_popescu: you know ? all industrial processes were organized towards reducing/eliminating retoolings
mircea_popescu: entirely possible. there's a large tower of "too smart for own britches" usually hiden behind these "blac arts"
asciilifeform: and oughta have 1 thread per core, and the rest -- yield
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that it's fundamentally braindamaged idea
mircea_popescu: i was thinking, "what's a slice anyway"
asciilifeform: while on subj, asciilifeform aint even sure if the traditional slicing scheduler is Right Thing
asciilifeform: btw when we plant gnatism on bare irons, will have to implement a scheduler, and it is 'black art' of sorts ( how big to make the quantum ? how to apportion slices to cores ? etc )
mircea_popescu: when will the fucktards learn we really don't buy the crap.
mircea_popescu: replete with the "learned helplessness" condiments it's breaded with, for shame.
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, it's a vestige from days of running on os with no scheduler (dos etc)
mircea_popescu: as things stand now, zcx meets exactly the wrecker's profile.
mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've had occasion to move the stack limit ( when tested ffa with massive fz widths, recall , all allocations are on stack ) but not otherwise
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can readily believe this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that diana_coman is the 1st to actually measure, since 1990s (if indeed anyone bothered then)
mircea_popescu: these, incidentally, are pretty brutal testing conditions. the average program isn't likely to go 20mn procedure calls deep (witness that almost nobody even knows how to move the stack limit in kernel).
mircea_popescu: in any case, it seems the heathen claim that "it is faster" is only true in a very narrow corner. otherwise--false.
diana_coman: the difference was big only on the 2-cores intel but then again, what tasks there anyway
asciilifeform: i dun recall whether i put this in the log, but asciilifeform found that if proggy does not use tasks, the 2 variants appear to build identical binary
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the present juncture i can't actually tell. it seems to (very slightly) slow down loops while performing merely slightly better than sjlj with no handlers set.
asciilifeform: wtf is even the point of zcx on pc ( not speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895611 horrors ) then. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: the differences aren't huge, 121.9171600 vs 121.816518000 and 879.95117100 vs 879.7342540 sorta thing. but they are consistent.
mircea_popescu: if you eat the cost of having 1 extra, can have 3 extra for the same dough.
mircea_popescu: so from the actual data : properly static sjlj ~actually faster~ than zcx, on various cases of tall tower of nested loops
asciilifeform: ^ pictured is 'pi', which is item similar to rk, but rejected by asciilifeform on acct of multi-MB blobism and massive unkillable (afaik) fritz chip core
asciilifeform: would look rather like the https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F8268825-01.jpg heathen board
asciilifeform: really oughta have a backplane connector, also ( the actual rk, takes up good 70-80% of enclosure space with cabling and legs )
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform would luvv a rk-like item baked by sane folx, could easily be half the size or smaller, i.e. w/out the useless ports, and perhaps with e.g. sata instead )
asciilifeform: rk actually has a video port, but asciilifeform baked the kernel w/out support for it
BingoBoingo: And then I try to do whatever before cooking in the hot aisle
BingoBoingo: And then I plug the keyboard in
BingoBoingo: Well I plug the monitor into a blue VGA port
asciilifeform: ( this is what we do on rk )
mircea_popescu: i thought he was just doing terminal over w/e
asciilifeform: tho imho would work just as well to use serial
mircea_popescu: a well then!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899694 << it does, to what do you suppose BingoBoingo connects the console to see whether alive ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( theoretically can do 70kV, per the sticker, but power supply deliberately capped by vendor, so as to get 100% absorption by the cabinet shields and sell as 'contained' or whatever oshaism it was called )
asciilifeform: the tube in asciilifeform's instrument maxes out at 35kV @ 0.3mA .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're commercially available , for cost of ~bmw , but i dun want one here lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, no, 10MeV photon is not easy to come by.
asciilifeform: i want lower/upper bound at least, or how the fuq to even know if could flip bit.
mircea_popescu: i know they did ; but it's perhaps worth revisiting!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun have a 10MeV source ( do you ?? ) . tho i suppose one could float the thing on balloon and hope to get lucky with cosmic ray..
asciilifeform went to compute mircea_popescu's q, 'just how much did it eat', apparently it's a bitch : absorption constant varies by chip, and in heavy industry folx mostly gave up , they stick dosimetric film underneath the board. i'ma get an upper bound tho, it's important q when we do the bitflip thing.
mircea_popescu: now do me teh pleasure and do teh math alongside the practical work eh! what is this, alf-is-15 lab discussions ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, it's about 10MeV ; i am pleasantly surprised you know about it, but i am unimpressed with the 1e8 error factor!
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 00:29 mod6: If inquiring minds would like to know, happy to elaborate. But I'll put up a blog post about it sometime before the end of the weekend I suspect.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 06:37 mircea_popescu: i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ?
asciilifeform: so, to answ http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899681 , it's a fat 0. as known even 100y ago.. ☝︎
asciilifeform: for all i know, he was even right.. at petavolt or sumsuch. but , hate to disappoint, not at kV or even mV.
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, old man edison thought otherwise, was convinced that one could 'alchemize' with xray 'if you just crank it up enuff' ! )
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/batidos/ << Trilema -- Batidos
mircea_popescu: for all you know the fg in question is hot enough.
mircea_popescu: or at least put a geiger to the smoldering remains ?
mircea_popescu: i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ? ☟︎
asciilifeform thought 'oughta transparent..' and closed hole in the sample shelf with paper.
asciilifeform: last lulzbit before asciilifeform to bed : the fibrous crud in the photo ? is 1 sheet of printer paper !
asciilifeform: aha, is what the dentists do. i'ma gild that lily when it turns out to need gilding tho, so far can already clearly distinguish 2 layers of pcb.
mircea_popescu: so sit down once and for all and write your equations towards usable form and there you go, math undergirth.
mircea_popescu: but the overarching thing here : you can't seriously expect to be doing this x ray stuff WITHOUT blowing dust off either h's matrices or the wavefunction.
mircea_popescu: anwyay, your other point is also quite sound : can certainly use low pass filter, such as metal mesh or w/e, to filter out lower energy. yes lower instant energy, but if expose for longer in the end get same total energy, more conveniently distributed on spectrum
asciilifeform too lazy atm to compute approx dose from this, in civilized units
asciilifeform: has eaten 30m or so, at various energies, largely towards 35k end
asciilifeform thus far can add only that the victim fg still worx..
mircea_popescu: which is my point here, half hour of math will give you rough guidance. it may well be the chip can reasonably take half hour in the oven.
asciilifeform: normally the killing dose for $chip is determined empirically.
asciilifeform: hence trickier
mircea_popescu: right, the ion w/e,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they dun move tho, what 'moves' is the free radical
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can calculate the probability function of a single atom being moved, which'd be the quantum of gate breakage.
asciilifeform: ( and even there, 'tomographic' pic, i.e. from range of angle, gives moar bang for bux , possibly )
asciilifeform: the multi-voltage thing will make serious diff when we reverse e.g. 6+-layer pcb and the like.
asciilifeform: in the bolix board, i'ma pull the ics before it goes into the oven, they're all socketed, so sorta academic.
asciilifeform: typically gate wedged into metastability . difficult to calculate tho.
mircea_popescu: my point here is that you can ~calculate~ this, within very reasonable error margin.
mircea_popescu: you figure it's getting damaged through what, metal ion transport ?
asciilifeform: sorta why dentist stuffs aluminum filter in the muzzle when xray. < 20kV or so just cooks meat, without reaching film.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at long wavelength, all but epsilon ends up going to cook the chip
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as no penetration in nature.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you get "0 penetration" in X time, try with 3x the time and see if it changes anything. if it does, you can then sorta-calc what exposure time you need (see the curves) and then judge if it's safe to expose that long.